How Being Named the 'Best New Restaurant in America' Hurt My Business • Hacker News Board

Re: How Being Named the 'Best New Restaurant in America' Hurt My Business

#61

Post by vehementi » Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 9:27 PM UTC

hluska wrote: post #6

You know, at the risk of heaping on the negativity, I read their Yelp ratings and while some are excellent, others are genuinely a sign of a restaurant in crisis. Consider the gentleman from New Zealand who made reservations via an email to the owner five weeks in advance, spent the afternoon walking around downtown LA to avoid rush hour traffic, and then showed up only to be told that they were closed for a wine tas…

> restaurant in crisis

Then you talk about an example where they forgot to cancel a reservation, and one where the restaurant was closed and a customer didn't call ahead to check before driving for an hour (why is driving for an hour through rush hour something that reflects on the restaurant?). Then one guy who didn't like the food style.

None of those point even remotely to a restaurant being in crisis, so let's look at your last piece of evidence - claims of poor service. Is the service poorly rated on average compared to other similar restaurants? How did you check? Based on how much more poor their service is compared to other similar restaurants, how did you determine that it is a sign of crisis rather than a weakness of the restaurant? (There are many places with good food, but weaker service, which we do not call 'in crisis')

Re: How Being Named the 'Best New Restaurant in America' Hurt My Business

#62

Post by prawn » Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 9:32 PM UTC

hueving wrote: post #50

downandout wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taste is, by its very definition, subjective. A mismatch between the taste of this commenter's apparently very sensitive palette and that of the menu designer does not qualify as a "rip-off".

By that logic, nobody should ever leave a bad review because the food was disgusting.

There's a difference between claiming someone is intentionally ripping you off, and saying that something is not to your taste.

Re: How Being Named the 'Best New Restaurant in America' Hurt My Business

#63

Post by eridius » Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 9:33 PM UTC

vehementi wrote: post #61

hluska wrote: post #6

You know, at the risk of heaping on the negativity, I read their Yelp ratings and while some are excellent, others are genuinely a sign of a restaurant in crisis. Consider the gentleman from New Zealand who made reservations via an email to the owner five weeks in advance, spent the afternoon walking around downtown LA to avoid rush hour traffic, and then showed up only to be told that they were closed for a wine tas…

> restaurant in crisis Then you talk about an example where they forgot to cancel a reservation, and one where the restaurant was closed and a customer didn't call ahead to check before driving for an hour (why is driving for an hour through rush hour something that reflects on the restaurant?). Then one guy who didn't like the food style. None of those point even remotely to a restaurant being in crisis, so let's lo…

Why would you call ahead? It's a reservation! By definition, you have already called ahead! I have never in my life heard of anyone calling ahead to check on their reservation.

Re: How Being Named the 'Best New Restaurant in America' Hurt My Business

#64

Post by everyone » Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 9:49 PM UTC

Restuarants are a very risky business. I'd lump them in with other entertainment ventures like quitting your job to go write a novel or whatnot. You get to follow your dream but are not likely to be financially secure. Its a pity society works like that, rewarding pointless work (like corporate lawyers, middle manager and HR people (no offence intended)), and seemingly punishing people who pursue their calling. I'm planning to do that myself (to make computer games) but I will arrange it so I dont have to make any money doing it and can still survive (I have almost saved enough money to buy a two bed apartment, I'll rent the 2nd room and live off that + my expenses will be extremely low as I wont have to pay any rent myself as I'll own the place)

Re: How Being Named the 'Best New Restaurant in America' Hurt My Business

#65

Post by tptacek » Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 10:01 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #58

tptacek wrote: post #43

I started Matasano with two partners, both from NYC, one of whom had taken a break from software security to go to culinary school. What I heard from them is that stuff like this is also part of the restaurant culture of different cities. The rap on NYC and LA is that they have competitive, take-down cultures (NYC more so than LA).

"The rap on NYC and LA is that they have competitive, take-down cultures (NYC more so than LA)." That's why they're better in the arts. In NYC, they tell you if you suck. In LA, they don't call you back if you suck. In SF nobody says anything and you can suck forever. Go to little theater or art openings and this is quite obvious.

Neither Chicago nor San Francisco have takedown restaurant cultures, and both have relatively spectacular restaurant scenes.

Some of this gets to what you're looking for from a restaurant. If you're looking at food as an art form, and only want to spend time getting exposure to the very best of it, NYC may indeed be a better filter for you. If what you want is a Great Neighborhood Restaurant, which is perhaps Great in ways that make it distinctive regionally or even nationally, I think Chicago is a better bet than LA.

Re: How Being Named the 'Best New Restaurant in America' Hurt My Business

#66

Post by downandout » Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 10:08 PM UTC

gyardley wrote: post #60

downandout wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taste is, by its very definition, subjective. A mismatch between the taste of this commenter's apparently very sensitive palette and that of the menu designer does not qualify as a "rip-off".

Oh, it's possible that the commenter had an unusual palate and he got some perfectly fine pairings that didn't work for him and him alone. Or it's possible that the pairings were selected lackadaisically or to reduce some inventory, and he really did get ripped off - which does happen. It's impossible for either of us to tell. I am curious, though, why you seem so insistent that it's the commenter at fault, to the po…

>Do you really think there's no way for a restaurant to screw up a wine pairing?

I guess I don't think it's that important of an issue regardless of whether it was screwed up or not - certainly not enough to publicly cheer the demise of someone's business. There are reasons that some restaurants should be closed. Food handling practices that endanger public health is one example. Serving wine from the wrong part of Europe at a restaurant where the food is critically acclaimed, however, isn't one - at least in my opinion.

Re: How Being Named the 'Best New Restaurant in America' Hurt My Business

#67

Post by stormbrew » Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 10:24 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #54

hueving wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic, nobody should ever leave a bad review because the food was disgusting.

Any statement, taken to its (il)logical extreme, can be made to seem ridiculous. But no one has accused the food here of being "disgusting". In this case, OP said that he didn't like a wine pairing, and ended his comment with "good riddance". In other words, he was happy to see the livelihood of another human being destroyed because he was unhappy with the specific part of Europe that the wine he was served came from…

Can we please have some perspective here? The business owner's livelihood was not "destroyed". His business failed. That is a risk every business owner takes when they start a business, and even that failure generally leaves them more equipped for their next effort. The article even explicitly talks about what he's doing next, which will almost certainly do well by him. He's going to be fine, and the OP of this thread has done and can do nothing to prevent that.

This kind of extreme overreaction to criticisms of people who have incredibly opportunities ahead of them no matter what they did wrong or failed at is just silly.

Re: How Being Named the 'Best New Restaurant in America' Hurt My Business

#68

Post by stormbrew » Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 10:29 PM UTC

zappo2938 wrote: post #46

striking wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a historic piece of cinematography with a world that feels vast and immersive to its fans. (I'm not one, but I am empathetic enough to imagine how they feel.) Objectively it's not perfect, but every movie means something different to everyone and registers on a different level with each person. So you're free to criticize it and rate it based on how well or poorly it portrays the things you think it stands…

Star Wars is for children and always have been. If a bunch of adults complain that the films don't speak to them, there is something very wrong with their state of maturity. I wasn't passing judgement on the films whether they were good or bad. I was pointing out like the chef, after Lucas gained popularity, people started to attack him and his films with harsh criticism. Maybe the criticism of the chef is legitimate…

> Star Wars is for children and always have been.

Please notice something about the average age of the people lined up to see Star Wars on opening weekend in 1977.

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/21/46/45/4614480/9/920x1240.jpg

There are a lot of non-children there. George Lucas, at some point, decided that Star Wars was entirely targeted at children. He was wrong. From the very beginning, Star Wars has had fans of all ages.

Re: How Being Named the 'Best New Restaurant in America' Hurt My Business

#69

Post by mikeash » Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 10:29 PM UTC

zappo2938 wrote: post #46

striking wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a historic piece of cinematography with a world that feels vast and immersive to its fans. (I'm not one, but I am empathetic enough to imagine how they feel.) Objectively it's not perfect, but every movie means something different to everyone and registers on a different level with each person. So you're free to criticize it and rate it based on how well or poorly it portrays the things you think it stands…

Star Wars is for children and always have been. If a bunch of adults complain that the films don't speak to them, there is something very wrong with their state of maturity. I wasn't passing judgement on the films whether they were good or bad. I was pointing out like the chef, after Lucas gained popularity, people started to attack him and his films with harsh criticism. Maybe the criticism of the chef is legitimate…

> Star Wars is for children and always have been. If a bunch of adults complain that the films don't speak to them, there is something very wrong with their state of maturity.

As if Disney executives were shocked to find a bunch of 30-40 year olds lining up for late showings of The Force Awakens on Thursday?

Star Wars may be made to appeal to children in addition to the adult audience, but it's pretty obviously not "for children" exclusively. That's especially true of the prequels and now the sequels, which are obviously made to cash in on the nostalgia of people who grew up with Star Wars in the 80s.

If a bunch of adults complain that the prequels don't speak to them, it's because they're fully aware that their childhood nostalgia is being exploited for cash, and the exploiters couldn't even be bothered to do a good job of it.

Re: How Being Named the 'Best New Restaurant in America' Hurt My Business

#70

Post by dmatthewson » Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 10:32 PM UTC

crdb wrote: post #56

Seems like an expensive lawsuit was an issue: June 2015: "If you add another $18,000 a month in legal fees ... we just can't absorb it on our own." October 2015: "We're still working with the other party to wrap up the lawsuit. But to maintain the restaurant at this point it would just continue to put us in a substantial amount of debt. [...] as small business owners, we won't be able to afford a trial, and we really…

Thanks, those articles are helpful in understanding the real issues.

This next article gives the other side of the story regarding the lawsuit.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/arianelange/alma-lawsuit

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/custom/...