Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation • Hacker News Board

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#381

Post by TulliusCicero » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 8:30 PM UTC

r0m4n0 wrote: post #186

Like everyone else... I couldn't get past the repeating theme: > But the total comp for “a good hacker” is $250k+/yr, not even counting perks like free food and having really solid insurance Maybe that's anecdotally true for the big companies in a small high demand area of the country (really just the bay) but not so most everywhere else. Probably why Paul Graham used a figure less than 1/2 that. With that figure exa…

It's true for the author's experience. We have a culture of not really discussing comp openly, so people mostly base what they think as 'normal' off what they and immediate friends in the industry make.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#382

Post by TulliusCicero » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 8:34 PM UTC

bigcothrowa wrote: post #60

At my BigCorp employer, Senior Engineer starts at like, maybe $140k total compensation, on the low end. I don't know where the author is drawing these $250-350k minimum figures from, but it feels like "thin air." That being said, a startup in my area would pay 50-70% as much.

Depends on the tech hub and employer. He's mostly discussing top tier companies like Google, Facebook, etc. where they're very successful and software is their product, more or less.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#383

Post by darpa_escapee » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 8:36 PM UTC

mkozlows wrote: post #264

dsacco wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there are if's involved. It is not certain that you will achieve senior tier at a large company in a metropolitan area. But you are also not certain to earn anything from your startup equity. I will reiterate - you are more likely to reach $250k working at a large company than you are to earn it (in salary or lump sum) at a startup. This has been corroborated by numerous individual's experience in this thread, i…

You need to quit saying "a metropolitan area" when you mean "Silicon Valley and a few places that have satellite offices for companies based in Silicon Valley," is the thing. Show me the companies in Columbus, OH that pay that way. Or Milwaukee, WI. Or or or.

New York, Philly and DC exist. They all have tech markets that are not at all dependent on SV.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#384

Post by alexandercrohde » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 9:31 PM UTC

thedufer wrote: post #377

alexandercrohde wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to be put in this position, but I have to call BS. This entire thread is highly biased towards people who make more: people who make more want to chime in, people who make less are more embarrassed / discouraged from chiming in. I'm a natural (coding since 3rd grade), out of college for 6 years, and I've only known 1 engineer in my career who made over 200k. Now if by BigCo you mean Facebook, Google, Apple, Am…

Where do you live? These numbers are fairly local to SF/NYC/Seattle, with other large cities trailing a bit and smaller cities farther behind. That said, in those cities they are far from absurd. I started out similar to you (coding since elementary school) and now live in NYC ~3.5 years out of college. Off the top of my head, I could name half a dozen developers making seven figures, and at least 100 making over $20…

I live in San Francisco, and have for about 4 years.

I'm shocked you know the salaries of 100 other developers. Care to share some of the companies that are paying this much to developers 3.5 years out of college? I'd love to corroborate on glassdoor.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#385

Post by QuercusMax » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 9:39 PM UTC

serge2k wrote: post #348

dsacco wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't undermine the author's point. As another commenter said, people are really underestimating the likelihood of earning a $250k salary at a large company. It's really, really doable at a large company within 5 years if you hit senior level and live in a metropolitan area. The author's core point is that you are much more likely to become a senior engineer at a large company (and thus earn ~$250k in salary)…

> This is so doable within five years that at large companies like Google and Microsoft you are expected to hit senior level, and if you don't it begins to reflect badly on your record. More explicitly, "senior" is the last level that everyone is expected to hit Not at Amazon. They are fine if people cap out at SDE 2. It's a bit of an odd thing IMO, and it's resulted in a comparatively low number of senior and above…

Probably because Amazon has enough problem with retention as it is, they don't want to encourage even more people to leave.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#386

Post by infinite8s » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 10:14 PM UTC

balls187 wrote: post #235

dsacco wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What he meant is that they are making far more than $200k, which makes his next sentence illustrative as an example.

I understood what he was saying, and I concurred to his statement: that top engineers at Google et al, are making more than $200k

Not only are they making more than 200k, they are making WAY more than 200k.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#387

Post by infinite8s » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 10:16 PM UTC

r0m4n0 wrote: post #241

dsacco wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you a senior engineer? Are you at a large company in a metropolitan area? Is your salary less than $250k? If you answered yes to all three, yes, you are probably underpaid. That doesn't mean you're doing something wrong if you love your job, but know that you could earn more.

I'm sorry but... if you were a senior software engineer in Sacramento (a metropolitan city) and asked for 200k at intel, hp, oracle, apple, etc., someone would quietly hang up the phone hahaha. A laughable amount is even closer to 150k if it wasn't a tech giant ie. Sutter, Blue Shield, Proctor & Gamble, PG&E, Franklin Templeton, etc. Lead, architect, principal... they may not hang up but I would expect a double take…

This whole conversation is about pay at tech companies, where developers are the primary revenue generator, as opposed to other industries where developers are generally considered a cost center.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#388

Post by crucifiction » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 10:23 PM UTC

serge2k wrote: post #348

dsacco wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't undermine the author's point. As another commenter said, people are really underestimating the likelihood of earning a $250k salary at a large company. It's really, really doable at a large company within 5 years if you hit senior level and live in a metropolitan area. The author's core point is that you are much more likely to become a senior engineer at a large company (and thus earn ~$250k in salary)…

> This is so doable within five years that at large companies like Google and Microsoft you are expected to hit senior level, and if you don't it begins to reflect badly on your record. More explicitly, "senior" is the last level that everyone is expected to hit Not at Amazon. They are fine if people cap out at SDE 2. It's a bit of an odd thing IMO, and it's resulted in a comparatively low number of senior and above…

Amazon is different than those companies in that its leveling options are much smaller. SDE II is a very broad range and at a company like MSFT/GOOG it would realistically map to 2-3 different job levels there based on experience and contribution level. Same with SDE III. Principal+ is probably the most aligned.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#389

Post by crucifiction » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 10:25 PM UTC

eecks wrote: post #230

sbilstein wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can corroborate this. 250k is very, very attainable.

Just in the states? What about in Europe? FB, Google and others have headquarters in Dublin. I don't think they pay anything like that, do they?

For a BigCo the Dublin pay is going to be roughly 50-70% of the US pay for the same job.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#390

Post by crucifiction » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 10:28 PM UTC

Bahamut wrote: post #362

patio11 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AppAmaGooFaceSoft and every company which is isomorphic to them. Tens of thousands of people have this pay package.

I don't think Amazon compensates that much - I interviewed with them this past summer, and they tried to lowball me. I gave a firm number that I would not go below after giving some numbers I have turned down in the past, and the process stalled indefinitely. I have also heard stories about Apple lowballing friends as well, to the point startups were giving higher compensation. The others, I have heard stories about…

You were probably down leveled based on the interview. The comp will max out lower (and therefore the offer won't be able to budge significantly higher) than you may achieve somewhere that did not downlevel you.