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The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

theguardian.com

171–180 of 182 posts

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#171

As an Indian I often wonder, the real question is not why India is so corrupt(esp. at the lower levels of bureaucracy), rather how come certain countries have zero corruption at those levels? Perhaps I'm too pessimistic about human nature.

I spent my first 25 years in India and the next 15 in the US. Widespread corruption in India was one of the things I hated most. I think in the end it comes down to just social norm, peer pressure and the prevailing environment. There are kinds of behavior that would be completely unacceptable and looked down upon in India and there are other kinds of behavior that is unacceptable in the US. Corruption is one of the behaviors unacceptable in the US but prevalent in India - and people just learn from the environment they grow up in.

I think many people in India, who consider themselves to have morally 'good' - wouldn't bat an eyelid while offering bribes. They don't get push back from peers either. What irked in India is when you try to do the right thing - i.e. not take the corruption shortcut - my peers would tell me I'm stupid or naive or something to that effect. In the US if I say that I attempted corruption, my peers will probably tell me I'm morally depraved. So you need a critical mass of people that enforce and most people just follow along.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#173
post #139
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Speeding is endemic in the US as well, and the penalties are onerous for pretty much everyone but the well-off. No, they're not. Perhaps in some states but not on average. I'm in Pennsylvania so can only use those numbers.[0] There is the base fine (which can be doubled if you're in a work zone or an area with posted signs to that effect) and surcharges. Fine (25-55mph/40-90km/hr zone): $45-95 Fine (65 mph/105km/hr…

In Ontario going 161 km/h anywhere is automatically considered "stunt driving" and carries a $10,000 fine, roadside vehicle impound, license suspension, and up to 6 months in prison. Edit: s/street racing/stunt driving/

As it should be. Penalties for speeding are way too lenient, and enforcement far too spotty.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#174
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Russians are terrified of the police, because they know that they can ask for a `bribe` even if you haven't done anything wrong. The problem with corrupt isn't that the rules benefit one party or another, rather that they are unpredictable.

In Canada everybody speeds all the time. In fact, it would be unsafe not to speed on the 401 as you'd be driving considerably slower than everyone else. So the enforcement randomness is the same, it's just the penalties are stiffer and longer-lasting.

It's not the same kind of unpredictability, but sometimes when I look at the West, it seems that we're getting there.

But why people complain, I wonder? Isn't endemic bribery a realization of the libertarian dream? People setting up to collect as much toll as they can from you while you voluntarily try to access a resource - that's literally the free market solution! /s

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#175
post #14

It is hard for those in Western countries to imagine what it is like to live in a corrupt state like that. Eastern Europe is like that as well. Corruption is a way of life. It starts from bribing the doctor who will deliver the baby, to bribing kindergarten teachers, to high school teachers, paying to cheat on a state exam, buying a driver's license etc, until bribing the cemetery to take make an extra spot for the d…

So? The west just plays the euphemism treadmill and calls a bribe a donation. Police is corrupt, too, and they are bribed with a paycheck.

>It is not the ... crime ... I can handle

bs, corruption is a crime fwiw

I don't hate going to work, I don't mind going home either, it's just the time in between that gets me.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#176
post #38
post #14

It is hard for those in Western countries to imagine what it is like to live in a corrupt state like that. Eastern Europe is like that as well. Corruption is a way of life. It starts from bribing the doctor who will deliver the baby, to bribing kindergarten teachers, to high school teachers, paying to cheat on a state exam, buying a driver's license etc, until bribing the cemetery to take make an extra spot for the d…

I too hate corruption. It's the main reason why the south of Europe is doing so badly. If corruption was lower where I'm from, Portugal, we could easily double our GDP. Corruption makes people miserable and not only the ones forced to pay the bribes. It's like an unwritten and arbitrary set of rules that turns simple transactions into negotiations. This not only saps energy and time but it is also deeply unfair as yo…

>It's like an unwritten and arbitrary set of rules that turns simple transactions into negotiations.

Generators without internal resistance are fine, but don't short them, if they are high energy.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#177
post #14

It is hard for those in Western countries to imagine what it is like to live in a corrupt state like that. Eastern Europe is like that as well. Corruption is a way of life. It starts from bribing the doctor who will deliver the baby, to bribing kindergarten teachers, to high school teachers, paying to cheat on a state exam, buying a driver's license etc, until bribing the cemetery to take make an extra spot for the d…

I am from a country where corruption is rampant. I don't think corruption is a cause, but an effect. You see certain economic schools of thought believe in the absolute power of the Market to solve issues. Corruption is the Free Market solution to economic inequality. In a society with very little opportunity for economic and social mobility and no faith in The State people will always have a market for alternative s…

>cause and effect

if it were that seperable

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#178
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Ontario going 161 km/h anywhere is automatically considered "stunt driving" and carries a $10,000 fine, roadside vehicle impound, license suspension, and up to 6 months in prison. Edit: s/street racing/stunt driving/

As it should be. Penalties for speeding are way too lenient, and enforcement far too spotty.

Nah, you can do 100mph safely on the 407 all night. It's just straight, smooth, half-empty toll road.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#179
post #51

Reform in India is the hardest thing ever. Corruption is soaked in our veins. In some states a birth certificate itself is modified (to start school early). Almost every aspect of any government is scam ridden, at any given time there can be a multitude of scams in progress and eye-wash investigations as well. The common man foots the bill, and pays blood money to survive. The recent floods in Chennai (a metropolitan…

If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15... http://goo.gl/bdvGlL

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#180
post #14

It is hard for those in Western countries to imagine what it is like to live in a corrupt state like that. Eastern Europe is like that as well. Corruption is a way of life. It starts from bribing the doctor who will deliver the baby, to bribing kindergarten teachers, to high school teachers, paying to cheat on a state exam, buying a driver's license etc, until bribing the cemetery to take make an extra spot for the d…

This is one of the reasons top politicians are paid so well. We can complain about their salary all day long but they make important decisions and a higher salary directly impacts the effectiveness of a bribe.

There are, in Mexico, 3,277 people employed by the federal government who earn more than 2 million pesos a year. That is well over $100K USD a year. This might not sound like that much in the U.S., but, for comparison, a teacher makes $7,812 USD in average for the whole year in Mexico, and someone making minimum wage would get $1,400 USD or so. We also have the fifth most expensive legislating body in the world.

In the absence of any negative repercussion for being caught, and in a culture that normalizes corruption, higher salaries don't make the majority of these people non-corrupt.

Economic inequality is both a cause and an effect of corruption. But it is not true that high wages for public servants are a vaccine against corruption.

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