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My positive experience as a woman in tech

lea.verou.me

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Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#331

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

sokoloff wrote: post #317
Retra wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is pretty clearly sexism. You don't have to apologize for it; people will just think you're an asshole.

Given the rampant assholism in the world, I have to be unconcerned with those people who believe I'm an asshole for doing this.

Just to give you a hint: How would you feel if you didn't know how to help yourself with something, and someone refused to help you because(!) you happen to be male? You might not have realised it, but that's in essence what you said, and that's at least one reason why people have been telling you that that behaviour is sexist. It's not about you helping women, it's about you deciding who to help based on their gender.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#332

Post by [deleted] »

avz wrote: post #17
dajohnson89 wrote: post #5

She had me until the very end, with the anecdote about the guy apologizing for swearing in front of her. I would apologize if I said "fuck" near my country's president, or even the president of my small-ish company. Both of whom are male. It's a sign of respect. In the context of women, I see it in a similar light to holding the door open for a lady. It isn't me assuming she's too weak to open a door, it's just a com…

You're missing this important point: > His effort to be courteous made me feel that I was different, the odd one out, the one we must be careful around and treat like a fragile flower. We should respect all our colleagues equally regardless of the type of sexual organs they happen to be equipped with (and regardless of other irrelevant characteristics). Singling out one group over others for additional "respect" is w…

[deleted]

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#333

Post by throwaway999888 »

isolate wrote: post #329
[deleted] wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Stereotyping is impossible to avoid and even healthy. Humans survive because of stereotypes. We need summary judgments to function; this is the core of translating perception into thought. The problem is when people willfully ignore signals to look past the stereotype. If you think that every person you meet alone on the street in any city on the planet is equally dangerous or equally safe regardless of what you obse…

I know.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#334

Post by nether »

ZoFreX wrote: post #121
cubano wrote: post #27

Here is my personal experience with the fringes of this issue over a lifetime of watching it play out before my eyes... If a female is attracted to the guy, things he says or does are considered "cute", "flirtatious", and/or "interesting". If not, the same actions are often considered "creepy", "jerkish", and yes even "sexist". I think its just human nature to perceive things in this way, and since women grow up in s…

My experience is different. This meme gets repeated a lot on the internet, but it jars with the stories I hear from my friends. Yes, someone not attractive is more likely to be considered creepy - but that's correlation, not causation. Being creepy is extremely unattractive! An example, which is by no means an outlier: A friend of mine met a man. The man is very attractive, in the particular way that the woman in thi…

There seems to be a large divergence between women's spoken preferences and observed preferences. It's like my very sympathetic female friend who says she would date a short guy, while she never has. My sister says plenty of women like asian men, while she has only dated white men. Women roundly ridicule men's shirtless photos on dating sites, except OkCupid showed that these photos attract women very effectively: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-4-big-myths-of-profile.... Even Brene Brown discovered that while women spoke of their desire for a sensitive, vulnerable man, in reality they were actually repulsed by it: https://www.quora.com/Why-are-some-women-repulsed-by-male-vu.... I could go on. I think there's some toxic puritanism that makes women feel compelled to act as the "fairer," more virtuous and less carnal gender. But the data show that women want big, strong, virile men to lean on to this day.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#335

Post by [deleted] »

ZoFreX wrote: post #121
cubano wrote: post #27

Here is my personal experience with the fringes of this issue over a lifetime of watching it play out before my eyes... If a female is attracted to the guy, things he says or does are considered "cute", "flirtatious", and/or "interesting". If not, the same actions are often considered "creepy", "jerkish", and yes even "sexist". I think its just human nature to perceive things in this way, and since women grow up in s…

My experience is different. This meme gets repeated a lot on the internet, but it jars with the stories I hear from my friends. Yes, someone not attractive is more likely to be considered creepy - but that's correlation, not causation. Being creepy is extremely unattractive! An example, which is by no means an outlier: A friend of mine met a man. The man is very attractive, in the particular way that the woman in thi…

[deleted]

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#336

Post by sokoloff »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #331
sokoloff wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the rampant assholism in the world, I have to be unconcerned with those people who believe I'm an asshole for doing this.

Just to give you a hint: How would you feel if you didn't know how to help yourself with something, and someone refused to help you because(!) you happen to be male? You might not have realised it, but that's in essence what you said, and that's at least one reason why people have been telling you that that behaviour is sexist. It's not about you helping women, it's about you deciding who to help based on their gende…

I'm not confused. I just don't agree that it makes me an asshole. I know it's differential behavior based on gender. That's why I thought it was interesting and on-topic to share.

For me, it's a safety issue. I'm pretty certain that I'm going to be able to handle 99.99% of encounters with roadside females (or elderly). I've gotten into an altercation with a roadside male I stopped to help in high school (who was likely high when he ran his car off the road).

I don't view it as particularly different from someone choosing to donate money or time to support the NAACP or NOW. Maybe donating to those organizations is racist and sexist, respectively? (Pedantically, it is, but I don't view those actions as negative or "asshole" either.)

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#337

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

sokoloff wrote: post #336
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to give you a hint: How would you feel if you didn't know how to help yourself with something, and someone refused to help you because(!) you happen to be male? You might not have realised it, but that's in essence what you said, and that's at least one reason why people have been telling you that that behaviour is sexist. It's not about you helping women, it's about you deciding who to help based on their gende…

I'm not confused. I just don't agree that it makes me an asshole. I know it's differential behavior based on gender. That's why I thought it was interesting and on-topic to share. For me, it's a safety issue. I'm pretty certain that I'm going to be able to handle 99.99% of encounters with roadside females (or elderly). I've gotten into an altercation with a roadside male I stopped to help in high school (who was like…

> For me, it's a safety issue. I'm pretty certain that I'm going to be able to handle 99.99% of encounters with roadside females (or elderly). I've gotten into an altercation with a roadside male I stopped to help in high school (who was likely high when he ran his car off the road).

Well, the question is: Do you decide based on physical strength/behaviour of the individual or based on gender? Sexism is when you ignore the individual's characteristics and instead decide how to interact with them based on some supposed characteristic of the gender that they belong to. If you simply decide based on how strong or high the individual is (or appears to be), independently of their gender, and that then happens to correlate with their gender, that's not sexism--if you avoid helping a male despite them appearing completely non-threatening/-intimidating/whatever (and that's how I understood what you wrote--after all, there is nothing "old school" about avoiding situations that seem risky, is there?), then that is sexism.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#338

Post by burkaman »

Chris2048 wrote: post #319
burkaman wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you suspect that?

Prove me wrong, kids. Prove me wrong. :-)

Obviously I can't. I don't live in Europe, I don't have any statistics about sexism in technology, and I doubt such a thing is really quantifiable enough to get useful statistics.

As far as Europe being "generally great", I can give you a few articles just to show that Europe has issues too.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/25/woman-s...

http://valleywag.gawker.com/one-woman-finally-calls-out-a-te...

http://www.pcgamer.com/hearthstone-tournament/

https://www.facebook.com/84kids/photos/a.259909824146769.107... - Job offer saying "I want to decrease margin to your "

http://programmersbeingdicks.tumblr.com/post/24191956009/thi...

So, it happens in Europe. I have no idea how often, but these examples didn't take long to find.

Anyway, I really was asking an honest question. Why do you suspect that it's worse in the US? Have you experienced more issues in the US, or heard more stories about the US?

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#339

Post by sokoloff »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #337
sokoloff wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not confused. I just don't agree that it makes me an asshole. I know it's differential behavior based on gender. That's why I thought it was interesting and on-topic to share. For me, it's a safety issue. I'm pretty certain that I'm going to be able to handle 99.99% of encounters with roadside females (or elderly). I've gotten into an altercation with a roadside male I stopped to help in high school (who was like…

> For me, it's a safety issue. I'm pretty certain that I'm going to be able to handle 99.99% of encounters with roadside females (or elderly). I've gotten into an altercation with a roadside male I stopped to help in high school (who was likely high when he ran his car off the road). Well, the question is: Do you decide based on physical strength/behaviour of the individual or based on gender? Sexism is when you igno…

I'm approaching the car at 30-70 mph from an oblique angle and trying to determine both the car and occupant status and whether I can safely get over and stop. I also wasn't expecting the situation, because I was out going about my business.

I admit that if the car was occupied by 6 elderly females, each with a pistol in one hand, a grenade in the other, and a deranged look in their eyes, that I wouldn't stop, but realistically, I'm making the call on occupant likely threat level to me primarily on gender and age, as if they're in the car, I can only see their shoulders and head.

In a good Samaritan situation like this, I have to be right every single time. One (more) mistake, and I can end up in a really bad spot and that's just not worth it to me or my family. For most false positive cases (where I drive past someone who posed no threat [which of course is most people on the side of the road]), they're going to get help inside of an hour or two from the police or AAA anyway.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#340

Post by humanrebar »

sokoloff wrote: post #339
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For me, it's a safety issue. I'm pretty certain that I'm going to be able to handle 99.99% of encounters with roadside females (or elderly). I've gotten into an altercation with a roadside male I stopped to help in high school (who was likely high when he ran his car off the road). Well, the question is: Do you decide based on physical strength/behaviour of the individual or based on gender? Sexism is when you igno…

I'm approaching the car at 30-70 mph from an oblique angle and trying to determine both the car and occupant status and whether I can safely get over and stop. I also wasn't expecting the situation, because I was out going about my business. I admit that if the car was occupied by 6 elderly females, each with a pistol in one hand, a grenade in the other, and a deranged look in their eyes, that I wouldn't stop, but re…

It's worth noting that the Good Samaritan stopped for a man, and it's likely the Samaritan was running a real risk of an ambush and mugging. We're all free to choose not to stop, which is the premise of the story, but the point of the story is that stopping is the right thing to do.

Though for people who aren't Christians, it's just a convenient metaphor.

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