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The best icon is a text label

thomasbyttebier.be

61–70 of 213 posts

Re: The best icon is a text label

#61
post #46

Icons, but not text, can be language agnostic and probably more resilient to cultural variation. Obviously well-recognized icons like arrows fit this property more so than time and culturally dependent things like floppy disks for save buttons.

this english-centric viewpoint of the article really bothers me.

no mention of i18n, no language variation. just try using labels with a more verbose language like german. welcome to hell.

a good icon works across cultures and languages, allows optimized and pixel-perfect UI.

Re: The best icon is a text label

#62

I remember getting into a debate about this subject with a self-described UI expert. It was part enlightening and part frustrating. He failed to see the point that so many of his ideas were US-centric, and didn't make sense in any context outside of English-speaking languages, and to be honest, they barely made sense in English. The author brings up Gmail, which has an icon for "archive" that makes zero sense no matt…

I don't think this is "zero empathy for the end-user", I think this is desperation. As companies and "product managers" get more statistical data on real-world clicks and usage and do more usability studies, they see that 90% of users don't know how to do anything. And they get desperate to "fix" that.

They go for drastic re-designs, get rid of all the text because "nobody" reads it, hide all the features because they "confuse" and "intimidate" users and "nobody" uses them, and end up with something that requires a young professional software developer like me some real sleuthing to figure out, on behalf of friends and family.

Then, when 95% of users don't know how to do anything, they get more desperate, and the result is even worse...

Re: The best icon is a text label

#64
post #39

> Don’t use an icon if its meaning isn’t a 100% clear to everyone. When in doubt, skip the icon. Reside to simple copy. A text label is always clearer. The article is misguided, in that it assumes that the meaning of an icon only exists in the lines/color/visual form of the icon. Icons are visual language . You have to teach the user what the icon means. Either the user has seen the icon before (such as in airports),…

> You have to teach the user what the icon means. Recognition speed presumably goes up with familiarity. I have Age - 6 years of experience reading, I have far less than that with whatever icon you come up with. Let's take starting an app as an example. On my Smartphone I use the email client "Nine". I probably open up the app manually (versus tapping on a notification) about 5 or 6 times a day. It took me ~3-5 month…

> I have Age - 6 years of experience reading, I have far less than that with whatever icon you come up with.

When I mean icons are a language, I literally mean that they're a language, in that there's a lineage and history of these languages.

For example, I bet you have decades of experience recognizing the 3.5" diskette 'save' icon, and a similar familiarity with the landline phone receiver as symbolizing 'phone'. These are icons that are part of a shared language, so it's safe to say that using them will be instantly recognizable, despite the fact most people don't use floppy disks or landlines anymore.

If a company decides to use a new icon that's not easily recognized, it's like trying to introduce new language; it has to be done smoothly, otherwise most users will not understand what it means. This is not a problem unique to icons; it's a problem across languages.

If I had a new command-line tool that, instead of `./cmtool --verbose`, I implemented `./cmtool --consult` or `./cmtool --magicify`, you'd have to `man cmtool` in order to understand what the commands mean. This is because '--verbose' is a flag that's common oft-used enough to be understood, generally, what it means, while 'magicify' or 'consult' are ambiguous and rarely used. This confusion has nothing to do with the nature that the UI is text-based (vs. icon-based), and everything to do with the fact that user interfaces, like a language, involves shared conventions.

Re: The best icon is a text label

#65
post #12

I'd love to see some empirical data, but my intuition is that text + colored icon is the ideal (in terms of how quickly you can find what you want) for both new and experienced users. Every little clue helps navigation, and makes me feel more confident about using an application.

This has been considered industry best practice for quite some time, and there are studies proving effectiveness (although I can’t cite them at the moment). However, the current design trend is minimalism, and we're stuck with that for awhile. It will eventually adjust itself back to a new baseline normal, somewhere in between.

Re: The best icon is a text label

#66
post #8

For someone who follows HN somewhat, I really don't keep up on any current cool-and-hyped stuff. I'll just see websites become more and more useless with three-stripe icons for menus and then just random mysterious icons, and I'll tell myself that that no doubt these no-context meaningless icons must be derived from whatever iphones are doing this week.

Today, I went to log into Evernote on the web. My password manager fills out the registration form, of course, but it won't submit because it wants an email address, not a username. So I go hunting for the "log in" option. Is it one of these attractive green buttons? oh, no, those are also sign up buttons. Is it in some weird corner like Tumblr for some reason? Nope. Maybe it's after this sales junk? Nope, just scrolly pictures and then some footer junk.

OH! I FOUND IT! it's a little small button under the register form!

I love how Evernote has managed to seamlessly combine the stupid web design tropes of 1) the hidden log-in form and 2) the incomprehensible hamburger. They've got a little something for everyone to hate. It's certainly not just them, though. My own employer's public website just hid all of its useful links behind a hamburger (I'm steering clear of the communications department for a while for their safety) and about every three days I start filling out the registration form on Github before realizing it's not the one I want.

Re: The best icon is a text label

#68
post #48
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only have an anecdote, but: I've discovered that I have no ability to differentiate between icons while working. On my own computers, I use WMII, a minimalist tiling window manager; that is: text and no icons. Before that, I'd used "traditional" window managers that showed the icon and program name in the bottom bar (Gnome, Vista, XP, 95). Anyway, at my last job, IT decided that the computer on my desk should run W…

> Anyway, at my last job, IT decided that the computer on my desk should run Windows 7, which only has the icon in the bottom bar. It's generally a good idea to look through the settings or search on the internet if you don't like something on your PC. Windows 7/8/8.1/10 all allow using labels and text for the taskbar buttons.

I don't think it was meant as a complaint about Windows as much as it was an anecdote about icons vs text.

Re: The best icon is a text label

#69
post #8

For someone who follows HN somewhat, I really don't keep up on any current cool-and-hyped stuff. I'll just see websites become more and more useless with three-stripe icons for menus and then just random mysterious icons, and I'll tell myself that that no doubt these no-context meaningless icons must be derived from whatever iphones are doing this week.

I always think "Am I turning into a stereotypical old person? Unable to use a computer?" I always feel like I'm just out of touch.

[deleted]

Re: The best icon is a text label

#70
post #8

For someone who follows HN somewhat, I really don't keep up on any current cool-and-hyped stuff. I'll just see websites become more and more useless with three-stripe icons for menus and then just random mysterious icons, and I'll tell myself that that no doubt these no-context meaningless icons must be derived from whatever iphones are doing this week.

I always think "Am I turning into a stereotypical old person? Unable to use a computer?" I always feel like I'm just out of touch.

Rose colored glasses. Remember Win 3.1's inscrutable "staple" icon? What the hell does a "yellow" traffic light mean in the context of Window controls?

And don't forget: software was shit when we were younger. Win 9x, Mac pre-OS X. Buggy crap all of it. I can't remember the last time my desktop hardlocked, though Android and iOS these days are similarly shitty to how Windiws 9x was.

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