Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation • Hacker News Board

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#311

Post by siculars » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 1:28 AM UTC

It may have been said elsewhere, but even if it has it should be said again. There is a huge difference between a tech "Big Company" like Google, FB, Amazon, Apple, etc., a Startup Company and a traditional non-tech "Big Company" like, oh, you know, most of the Fortune 500 in virtually every other industry - retail, pharma, insurance, transport, etc.

A tech Big Company values engineers and pays accordingly.

A non-tech Big Company simply does not value engineers or tech and consider both to be cost centers instead of drivers of growth.

I would plainly say that jobs at either a Startup or a tech Big Company would both be better options than a job at a non tech Big Company.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#312

Post by thrownaway2424 » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 1:38 AM UTC

ryanSrich wrote: post #136

logical42 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people are actually really out of touch with bigco pay scales. 250k is pretty easily achievable in a bigco. At Facebook you'll hit 250k+ in total comp at level 5, at LinkedIn you'll hit 250k+ in total comp at Staff level. If you also factor in stacking allotments of RSUs, your pay can easily exceed 300k at these levels given a few years of tenure.

Is this only in Silicon Valley? Or are these pay scales appropriate for satellite offices as well? For example: could you hit $250k working for Google in Pittsburgh?

There was an internal, self-reported survey of compensation within Google that showed very little variance of total compensation at the same level in different offices.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#313

Post by devonkim » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 1:57 AM UTC

alain94040 wrote: post #31

thesimon wrote: post #18

Tangential to this article, but >pay outside of the US is often much lower for reasons that don’t really make sense to me). Can someone explain why salaries in for example Europe are so much less? Out of uni salary for example seems to be around 38k in Europe, whereas in US everything under 90k seems very low. Just the difference in purchase power and costs?

There is a huge difference between companies where software is the product (Google, Microsoft, Silicon Valley startups), and companies where software supports a business that has nothing to do with software (most IT jobs). When software is the product, you tend to consider your software developers as money makers and pay them better. When you think of your engineers as a necessary evil to sell other stuff, you tend t…

The majority of the world's software is the second case. It just so happens we have a lot of software product and services companies in the US. Also, just because you're a technology vendor doesn't mean that you'll treat your software developers well. There's tons of really mediocre software companies (large ones, even) that outsource developers constantly and shower sales with massive bonuses because they've failed to make a good business being good at technology, so they become a sales-oriented culture. This tends to happen at the majority of large (10k+ employee) software companies across the Fortune 500. Technology itself is a business few are actually capable of doing well in, most just mark up crap for other businesses and deliver "value" in areas that have nothing to do with good engineers of any sort.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#314

Post by baudehlo » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 2:09 AM UTC

sbilstein wrote: post #133

curun1r wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds great when you envision that big company as Amazon, Google, Microsoft or Facebook. It sounds less so when you envision that company as Oracle, eBay, Yahoo! or SAP. Some large companies are mostly going to teach you politics, byzantine process and spending money as a means of scaling bad software. It's important to differentiate skills learned at big companies. Some are very useful, but others are coping m…

yes. which big company matters so much. i find it frustrating when my hacker school friends deride big companies as having no interesting work being done or not being great places to work. Having worked at startups and two different big corporations, I've learned the most at the very large company I work at now, almost nothing at the first one I did and a mixed bag at startups.

Heck, even well known boring big companies (eg IBM, Oracle) have great smaller teams that are doing interesting things. Much of it is a crapshoot. The nice benefit of the smaller company is that you have much higher likelihood of seeing your code go into production, and experiencing the feedback from it being used. At a big company you will get shielded from that. Often for good reasons - but the feedback truly helps your career.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#315

Post by theptip » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 2:10 AM UTC

The section on options doesn't mention early excercising and 83(b)s. I thought it was commonplace to allow options to be exercised before vesting, at a nominal valuation. File your 83(b), and then any increase in value of your options are not considered capital gains; you just pay tax on the final amount that you sell the shares for.

Is this an omission in the post, or is the early exercise option less common than I thought?

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#316

Post by foobarqux » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 2:14 AM UTC

throwaway_goog wrote: post #248

lcr94 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This style of reply is not constructive. How can we know with certainty whether or not you have a reasonable shot at making 250k/year after five years of working at Apple, Amazon, Google, or Microsoft? Provide an anecdote, links to articles, etc.

Throwaway because I don't want my salary history to become public. I spent 5 years at Google. My AGI (as measured by the IRS) during my time there went $130K, $200K, $280K, $280K, $300K, $356K (for my last 5 months there...it also includes unexercised stock options for the last 5 years, though). The bump to $280K was upon promotion to senior SWE; the one to $200K was largely because of a generous stock refresh grant.

When you say unexercised you mean unvested, right? Can you redo the numbers and break-out the vesting stock?

Also, since the thread is about making decisions about your career, considering compensation, why did you leave Google?

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#317

Post by foobarqux » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 2:14 AM UTC

fbthrowaway1776 wrote: post #262

lcr94 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This style of reply is not constructive. How can we know with certainty whether or not you have a reasonable shot at making 250k/year after five years of working at Apple, Amazon, Google, or Microsoft? Provide an anecdote, links to articles, etc.

At FB, my first job out of college, my W2 income was: 110k (started midway through the year), 300k, 350k.

Harvard/Stanford/MIT?

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#318

Post by gnarbarian » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 2:16 AM UTC

aantix wrote: post #204

gnarbarian wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a senior programmer at a smallish company (30 programmers around 150 people total) where I've been for 5 years and I make 60k. Funny part is I bill out at 140 per hour and am 95% billable.

Why are you still there?

Not many software jobs in Alaska. I am against moving as well.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#319

Post by more_corn » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 2:21 AM UTC

You had me till you non-ironically referenced mchurch. Seriously if you ever see him start talking just turn around and walk away.

Having worked at Google for 7 years and now at a startup, I have to say the big company bullshit factor is huge. Even at Google where where bullshit is gold plated and served with delicious, locally sourced, healthy and tasty side dishes.

I learned a lot there, worked with brilliant people, was able to carve out super gratifying work. But, it just got silly. I'm thrilled to be gone, and hope never to go back.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#320

Post by logical42 » Sat, Dec 19, 2015, 2:28 AM UTC

more_corn wrote: post #319

You had me till you non-ironically referenced mchurch. Seriously if you ever see him start talking just turn around and walk away. Having worked at Google for 7 years and now at a startup, I have to say the big company bullshit factor is huge. Even at Google where where bullshit is gold plated and served with delicious, locally sourced, healthy and tasty side dishes. I learned a lot there, worked with brilliant peopl…

I think he was non-ironically referencing mchurch to rebut some of his claims..