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Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

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Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#301

Post by sbilstein »

miles_matthias wrote: post #288

I don't see why this is getting much attention. You can look at the financials all day long, but what really matters is your happiness. Are you going to be happy at a big company doing the same job day in and day out? If so, great! If you're the type of person that can't stand repetition and predictability and want the emotional roller coaster of creating something new, then join a startup! We don't have blog posts t…

You might have a repetitive job at a start up writing crud for an ecommerce website or you might have a rollercoaster ride at Google inventing spanner. The things you describe are not exclusive to either the startup or the bigco.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#302

Post by fredkbloggs »

stvswn wrote: post #184
noname123 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"senior" is the last level that everyone is expected to hit, and at which you are "allowed" to not seek further promotions. I was under the impression that Senior is mid-level? I thought the ladder went, Junior/Associate, (Just) Software Engineer, Senior (some places have Senior I/II), then Principal, and finally (Optional for really big companies with R&D like Cisco/Juniper/United Technologies), Fellow or Distingui…

Risk adjustment is definitely appropriate, but I think the author is being conservative even with this in mind. You're right that "Senior" is still mid-level, but the author is being conservative. The reality at a healthy, profitable company is something like this: $250k being the "total comp" for someone is a T5 seems right to me, even adjusting for risk. A T5 at Google, Facebook, or Apple is likely earning much mor…

> 150k guaranteed comp, 25k bonus, 75k vesting equity is low for the companies w/ equity run-ups in the past several years, in my opinion.

You're right, assuming that everything continues as it has. Nothing is guaranteed; that 150k can vanish in a puff of smoke through no fault of your own, and take all your unvested comp along with it.

> the bonus is basically guaranteed.

No, it is not. Many, many people will tell you of their time spent at BigCo when the economy is not booming, and after the free donuts, the first thing that goes is the bonus. You have to read the bonus plan very carefully to understand how it's computed. It's quite possible that your bonus at Facebook or whatever depends solely on your own rating, but at most companies that's just the final multiplier and all kinds of other things have to happen in order for the bonus pool to exist at all. In even mild headwinds, it's likely that only a part of the expected bonus will be paid, and not unusual for there to be none at all. Furthermore, the bonus plan is usually determined one year at a time, so the fact that whatever needed to happen this year for everyone to be paid at 100% did happen is no guarantee that the criteria in next year's plan will be satisfied.

Do not assume that the future looks exactly like the recent past. It is certainly possible that the near future will be even better than the recent past, but at least some kind of mean reversion is a hell of a lot more likely. I predict that very few people will end up receiving as much total cash for their work over the next 5 years as their simplistic and rosy-eyed calculations of today would indicate.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#303

Post by mruniverse »

miles_matthias wrote: post #288

I don't see why this is getting much attention. You can look at the financials all day long, but what really matters is your happiness. Are you going to be happy at a big company doing the same job day in and day out? If so, great! If you're the type of person that can't stand repetition and predictability and want the emotional roller coaster of creating something new, then join a startup! We don't have blog posts t…

It's basically a reply to the positive coverage that Startups get. Startups get the glory (as much as you can in this line of work anyway). They get TV shows, movies and endless blog posts. And judging from the attention, his post was needed.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#304

Post by throwawayNC »

mpdehaan2 wrote: post #170
logical42 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my understanding, they don't really recalibrate pay scales at the bigcos based on location.. but this is purely anecdotal evidence.

Well, there's really no corresponding data for many other markets . Facebook and Google don't really do Work From Home and don't have a lot of remote locations for development depending on where you are. (Amazon is another example). I don't know what they offer datacenter staff, but in many areas, recruiters are pretty adamant about people moving. From my experience, say, the North Carolina scene, you're lucky if you…

I was in NC and made about $100K after 7 years. I kept hearing people made $150K elsewhere so I took a gamble and moved. After my first position making $130K I doubled my salary at another well known company to about $260K.

I know from recruiter spam that $260K seems to be on the high end, with only the top firms mentioned paying close to that. I have friends that dwarf what I make, but they had good stock options at companies that made it to IPO. Definitely don't regret leaving NC.

I'd love to know what someone mildly famous like Mbstock, Rich Hickey, etc would make. I am a nobody and have done what I consider well.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#305

Post by throwawayabcer »

throwaway_goog wrote: post #248
lcr94 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This style of reply is not constructive. How can we know with certainty whether or not you have a reasonable shot at making 250k/year after five years of working at Apple, Amazon, Google, or Microsoft? Provide an anecdote, links to articles, etc.

Throwaway because I don't want my salary history to become public. I spent 5 years at Google. My AGI (as measured by the IRS) during my time there went $130K, $200K, $280K, $280K, $300K, $356K (for my last 5 months there...it also includes unexercised stock options for the last 5 years, though). The bump to $280K was upon promotion to senior SWE; the one to $200K was largely because of a generous stock refresh grant.

Also throwaway for obvious reasons. What you say sounds totally in line with my experience:

I am Senior SWE at an Alphabet company. Came to MTV in middle of 2015 from a company in the midwest where I made over $200K last year (much of this was profit-sharing bonus), and I was definitely at top of the market for my city.

My total compensation for this coming year (based on current value of GOOG, obviously this can vary) is projected in the mid-$300Ks. (Some of this is initial GSUs vesting, so it's slightly inflated). With the difference in cost-of-living it should be about equivalent to where I was last year. Too soon for first refresh grant, so I can't speculate about where it may go from there.

I've already gotten a larger raise and bonus than I expected, seeing as I negotiated a better offer than they originally gave me. My manager has been talking with me about what I need to do to get to promoted Staff level.

So yes, there is money to be made in SV, at big companies.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#306

Post by d4rkph1b3r »

dreaminvm wrote: post #267
mrshoe wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That this is currently the top comment reinforces the author's hypothesis that many software engineers underestimate how much they could make at a large company. > 250k a year in 5 years at a big corporation, really? Yes, really. > Yea if you're lucky to work on a project/team higher-ups care about and are also willing to bust your ass working long hours to meet insane deadlines. Nope, not true. > So I think this art…

Firstly, everyone not working in the Bay Area can ignore these figures because they are bloated due to cost of living (3K for 1BR/1BA apartment) and competition for talent (from startups and peers). Secondly, people are ignoring the fact that RSUs at the 3 companies mentioned (and a few others AMZN/MSFT) have grown substantially in the past 5 years (about 125-150% on average) and is the biggest factor in these "surre…

Err, this is not accurate from my experience. I work at a large company (not one of the 'big 4 tech though) ,remote, in a medium cost of living locale and my salary is what your total comp is. I would get a huge jump if I went to one of the big 4 in the bay area.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#307

Post by cldellow »

sbierwagen wrote: post #26
hacknat wrote: post #11

When it comes to compensation I think it's pretty clear that Big Companies win. You don't even need to point to Google, Facebook, etc to make this point. However, his argument becomes truly hand-wavey and spurious when it comes to the interesting work part. Of course some of the most interesting tech papers are coming out of Google, that doesn't mean anything for the average Google employee. Also, in his, argument, h…

You did a greenfield implementation of a compiler? Why?

One of my first jobs was at a startup founded in the late 90s. We had a compiler to transpile UIs and business logic to C#, JSP, ASP.NET and Java, depending on what the end customer's requirements were.

Was this a good idea? Separate question. But that's one story of why a startup might write a compiler. I often think startups do things the hard way just to turn a boring task into an interesting one. Conveniently, good startups have technically strong people who can do this without it being a drag on productivity. This company had no shortage of talented folks--their staff have gone on to work at Google, Amazon, Microsoft and at least one YC company.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#308

Post by samstave »

wdmeldon wrote: post #281
dreaminvm wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly, everyone not working in the Bay Area can ignore these figures because they are bloated due to cost of living (3K for 1BR/1BA apartment) and competition for talent (from startups and peers). Secondly, people are ignoring the fact that RSUs at the 3 companies mentioned (and a few others AMZN/MSFT) have grown substantially in the past 5 years (about 125-150% on average) and is the biggest factor in these "surre…

Location is one of the core factors of this article. I'm 3 years into my career and still make less than half the starting rate at BigCorp in SV.

How much is your rent?

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#309

Post by joycey »

mcguire wrote: post #146
huangwei_chang wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It guess it also depends on what level one is when joining the company. I guess this article is for people with an undergraduate degree in CS?

...from Stanford or a similar school.

If you're saying this to suggest that students from Stanford or similar schools are able to attain better offers, then sure. If you're saying this to suggest that companies give students from Stanford vs students from "worse" schools better offers, that's not true.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#310

Post by rdl »

didip wrote: post #144
balls187 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What companies are paying 5 year senior enigneers $200k base salary in the Valley???

I can come up with a few on top of my head: Netflix, Apple, Google

I don't think anyone makes $200k base at Netflix after 5 years as a serious SWE. "Starts with a 3" is what I've heard pretty consistently.
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