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Ketamine’s effect bolsters a new theory of mental illness

nautil.us

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Re: Ketamine’s effect bolsters a new theory of mental illness

#31

Post by [deleted] »

Igglyboo wrote: post #30
lilcarlyung wrote: post #25

What with the pro-drug posts here all the time. I'm guessing that most of the HN audience is American. Is it common among techies in the U.S. to experiment with psychoactive drugs, hence the interest and knowledge? Please, do not mention Steve Jobs acid experiences.

It is very common in my experience. Google, Microsoft, Apple, and every tech company I've ever applied to (even small midwestern shops) do not drug test. The FBI has a problem hiring good security experts because of their strict drug testing policies. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527023044227045795743...

[deleted]

Re: Ketamine’s effect bolsters a new theory of mental illness

#32

Post by Igglyboo »

spotman wrote: post #4

This makes me nervous. Ketamine has major issues with bladder damage when taken repetitively. Possibly with a low enough dosage this would be manageable, but speaking from experience from watching people that have been on the wrong end of the stick with this one. it can do some really serious long term damage in that department.

> Ketamine has major issues with bladder damage when taken repetitively.

At recreational doses, doctors aren't going to be prescribing anywhere near that.

Re: Ketamine’s effect bolsters a new theory of mental illness

#33

Post by tyleroconnell »

Igglyboo wrote: post #30
lilcarlyung wrote: post #25

What with the pro-drug posts here all the time. I'm guessing that most of the HN audience is American. Is it common among techies in the U.S. to experiment with psychoactive drugs, hence the interest and knowledge? Please, do not mention Steve Jobs acid experiences.

It is very common in my experience. Google, Microsoft, Apple, and every tech company I've ever applied to (even small midwestern shops) do not drug test. The FBI has a problem hiring good security experts because of their strict drug testing policies. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527023044227045795743...

I have personally experienced a drug test with a technology company for a pre-employment screening, and heard of others that do the same. The company gave ample notice, but I don't think it's fair to paint a picture where drug tests are non-existent within tech.

Re: Ketamine’s effect bolsters a new theory of mental illness

#34

Post by astazangasta »

I have been depressed a significant fraction of my adult life. I am also a biologist who abhors the medical description of this problem. I don't even like the word 'mental illness'. This shit is not an illness, its a normal response to a fucked up life! Can I get at least some acknowledgment of this fact?

The sine qua non for me was an issue of Nature a few years back that focused on depression, talked about how prevalent it is, how it is a 'drain on productivity', etc. Included therein was a graph of the worst affected populations, topping the list was Afghanistan. This passed without comment. How about: 'hey, the cause of depression seems to be human misery, like war, unemployment, alienation, etc.'

But you can't sell a fucking pill to cure war and alienation, so ...

Re: Ketamine’s effect bolsters a new theory of mental illness

#35

Post by johnchristopher »

astazangasta wrote: post #34

I have been depressed a significant fraction of my adult life. I am also a biologist who abhors the medical description of this problem. I don't even like the word 'mental illness'. This shit is not an illness, its a normal response to a fucked up life! Can I get at least some acknowledgment of this fact? The sine qua non for me was an issue of Nature a few years back that focused on depression, talked about how prev…

> This shit is not an illness, its a normal response to a fucked up life! Can I get at least some acknowledgment of this fact?

Well, no you can't because it seems a lot of people with really good life are just struck by it.

Although I believe the environment (physical, emotional, relational [edit: in recovery or/and prevention]) plays a huge role there still seems to be something extra going on.

Re: Ketamine’s effect bolsters a new theory of mental illness

#36

Post by kafkaesq »

DanBC wrote: post #16
toomuchtodo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also of note regarding SSRIs and pregnancy: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/1... > A new study provides some of the strongest evidence yet that using an antidepressant like Prozac, Paxil or Zoloft during the final two trimesters of pregnancy may be linked to a higher risk of autism spectrum disorder for the child, but researchers said the results should be interpreted with caution.

Pretty irresponsible to mention "increased risk" without saying what that risk is, nor what the increase actually is. Especially when suicide is one of the leading causes of death of women during the perinatal period.

Pretty irresponsible to mention "increased risk" without saying what that risk is, nor what the increase actually is.

The article makes it perfectly clear what the risk is, how much the increase is, and with what factors it is associated; and what the researchers caveats were about their own findings. The poster you were slamming wasn't spreading FUD or hyperbolizing; he was just simplifying. It's pretty irresponsible (and obnoxious) of you to suggest otherwise.

Re: Ketamine’s effect bolsters a new theory of mental illness

#37

Post by llamataboot »

Igglyboo wrote: post #32
spotman wrote: post #4

This makes me nervous. Ketamine has major issues with bladder damage when taken repetitively. Possibly with a low enough dosage this would be manageable, but speaking from experience from watching people that have been on the wrong end of the stick with this one. it can do some really serious long term damage in that department.

> Ketamine has major issues with bladder damage when taken repetitively. At recreational doses, doctors aren't going to be prescribing anywhere near that.

There are other similar family drugs that seem less likely to harm the bladder (see MXE and new ketamine analogs) while still having the anti-depressant and neuro-protective effects of ketamine. Jury is still out on how prevalent bladder damage is, and if its caused by ketamine itself. AFAIK, most of the cases where bladder damage have shown up have been reversible and in extremely high dose and chronic ketamine usage.

FWIW - doctors are definitely using "recreational" doses in these experiments.

Re: Ketamine’s effect bolsters a new theory of mental illness

#38

Post by kafkaesq »

tyleroconnell wrote: post #33
Igglyboo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very common in my experience. Google, Microsoft, Apple, and every tech company I've ever applied to (even small midwestern shops) do not drug test. The FBI has a problem hiring good security experts because of their strict drug testing policies. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527023044227045795743...

I have personally experienced a drug test with a technology company for a pre-employment screening, and heard of others that do the same. The company gave ample notice, but I don't think it's fair to paint a picture where drug tests are non-existent within tech.

Right -- the stance against drug testing is common among tech companies, but not universal.

There are many tech companies, like Pivotal Labs, that love drug testing.

Re: Ketamine’s effect bolsters a new theory of mental illness

#39

Post by user_0001 »

Igglyboo wrote: post #32
spotman wrote: post #4

This makes me nervous. Ketamine has major issues with bladder damage when taken repetitively. Possibly with a low enough dosage this would be manageable, but speaking from experience from watching people that have been on the wrong end of the stick with this one. it can do some really serious long term damage in that department.

> Ketamine has major issues with bladder damage when taken repetitively. At recreational doses, doctors aren't going to be prescribing anywhere near that.

Not recreational dosages. At serious addiction levels yes.

It would be like saying having a couple of recreational beers on a Friday causes liver failure. It doesn't. Drinking a bottle of whiskey every day for an extended period of time, perhaps.

Same with Ketamine

Re: Ketamine’s effect bolsters a new theory of mental illness

#40

Post by stouset »

astazangasta wrote: post #34

I have been depressed a significant fraction of my adult life. I am also a biologist who abhors the medical description of this problem. I don't even like the word 'mental illness'. This shit is not an illness, its a normal response to a fucked up life! Can I get at least some acknowledgment of this fact? The sine qua non for me was an issue of Nature a few years back that focused on depression, talked about how prev…

Unfortunately, there are two types of depression, neither of which seemingly have anything to do with one-another. One is situational depression, where you're unhappy because, well, shit sucks. The other is clinical depression which can happen completely independent of your life circumstances.
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