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Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

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Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#241

Post by r0m4n0 »

dsacco wrote: post #118
rdtsc wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I saw that and thought, ok maybe if you are on of the known or maintain a popular open source package, a conference speaker. But 250k in year 5 is not a number that rings true. Or, maybe I am doing something wrong here and am underpaid...

Are you a senior engineer? Are you at a large company in a metropolitan area? Is your salary less than $250k? If you answered yes to all three, yes, you are probably underpaid. That doesn't mean you're doing something wrong if you love your job, but know that you could earn more.

I'm sorry but... if you were a senior software engineer in Sacramento (a metropolitan city) and asked for 200k at intel, hp, oracle, apple, etc., someone would quietly hang up the phone hahaha. A laughable amount is even closer to 150k if it wasn't a tech giant ie. Sutter, Blue Shield, Proctor & Gamble, PG&E, Franklin Templeton, etc.

Lead, architect, principal... they may not hang up but I would expect a double take and a "let's be realistic."

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#242

Post by declan »

georgefrick wrote: post #50

So I've been at this 9 years and I'm not making six figures. Fuck. I don't even understand where I went wrong. Part of me can't believe the article at all. His comment about cost of living was kind of an outright dismissal, very odd? I don't think Google will let me work from Milwaukee. Where is the information on travel, quality of life (owning a house?), etc?

The median home value in Palo Alto is $2.5M per Zillow; in neighboring Menlo Park with comparable schools it's $2M. If you cross I-280 for larger lot sizes (and generally, though not always, more house square footage) you'll see the median home value in Portola Valley is $3.8M. If you don't like those figures, you can look at Trulia's, which says the median sales price for Palo Alto is $2.5M and the mean listing price is $3M.

Note these are generally not luxurious properties at those prices. Many are small postwar ranchers or Eichlers (beautiful but a pain to update) that have not been renovated in decades. Some houses have negative value because they're teardowns; you'd buy the property for the land.

After taking into account housing costs and California's aggressively progressive tax regime, you may find that $250K salary does not go as far as you like. You may make 2x-3x as much--but your cost for comparable housing may be 10x-15x as high and your tax burden will be more oppressive as well.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#243

Post by cbr »

lcr94 wrote: post #233
mrshoe wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That this is currently the top comment reinforces the author's hypothesis that many software engineers underestimate how much they could make at a large company. > 250k a year in 5 years at a big corporation, really? Yes, really. > Yea if you're lucky to work on a project/team higher-ups care about and are also willing to bust your ass working long hours to meet insane deadlines. Nope, not true. > So I think this art…

This style of reply is not constructive. How can we know with certainty whether or not you have a reasonable shot at making 250k/year after five years of working at Apple, Amazon, Google, or Microsoft? Provide an anecdote, links to articles, etc.

Anecdote: I've been at one of those companies for three years, and made about $250k this year.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#244

Post by chris11 »

lcr94 wrote: post #233
mrshoe wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That this is currently the top comment reinforces the author's hypothesis that many software engineers underestimate how much they could make at a large company. > 250k a year in 5 years at a big corporation, really? Yes, really. > Yea if you're lucky to work on a project/team higher-ups care about and are also willing to bust your ass working long hours to meet insane deadlines. Nope, not true. > So I think this art…

This style of reply is not constructive. How can we know with certainty whether or not you have a reasonable shot at making 250k/year after five years of working at Apple, Amazon, Google, or Microsoft? Provide an anecdote, links to articles, etc.

I'm currently still in school, and I personally don't know anyone who is making $250k/year five years into their career. But I have seen new grad offers that make that number seem reasonable. One of my friends is a really smart developer who got several offers from places competitive with those companies. I don't think they really had much full-time work experience. The first year total comp in one of their offers was around $200k. A 25% compensation increase over five years seems reasonable to me.

Edit: It does kind of depend on how you value stock/RSUs in your compensation package. Most of the offers they got were from public companies that were well run. So I personally would not be extremely worried about the stock losing most of its value before I was able to sell.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#245

Post by humanrebar »

atomicUpdate wrote: post #239
humanrebar wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some cost of living calculators make $150k in Dallas equal about $250 in NYC. It's worth noting that $150k is high for Dallas, but not impossible for people with Principal, Fellow, or Chief in their job titles. It's worth noting that using a flat cost-of-living adjustment both overestimates and underestimates things. The kind of place you'd likely rent in Plano or Addison would cost ridiculous amounts in NYC, given c…

> It's worth noting that $150k is high for Dallas, but not impossible for people with Principal, Fellow, or Chief in their job titles. No one is reaching any of those titles 5 years out of college though.

Absolutely not, no.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#246

Post by Avshalom »

vonmoltke wrote: post #178
dsacco wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't undermine the author's point. As another commenter said, people are really underestimating the likelihood of earning a $250k salary at a large company. It's really, really doable at a large company within 5 years if you hit senior level and live in a metropolitan area. The author's core point is that you are much more likely to become a senior engineer at a large company (and thus earn ~$250k in salary)…

> It's really, really doable at a large company within 5 years if you hit senior level and live in a metropolitan area. So Dallas doesn't count as a metropolitan area? I can almost guarantee nobody here is making that kind of money after only five years. In fact, I'm willing to bet that this kind of compensation is extremely rare outside SV, NYC, and possibly Seattle. In fact, based on what I remember of the salary b…

That's as may be but what are your chances of making the equivalent of 5 years at Dallas BigCorp busting your ass to get to a senior X or X Supervisor in 5 year vs busting your ass at start up in Dallas?

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#247

Post by krisdol »

How do you even argue with someone who thinks that the average "big corporation" pays and looks like Google or Facebook? The vast majority of them aren't. That's my experience from working at them, interviewing at them, and seeing my colleagues work at them. The best thing about big cos? Generally I had good comradery and in-office perks, as well as good hours. When it comes to pay, raises, innovation, passion, speed, benefits, on all of those terms I've always had a better experience at smaller companies.

Sure, that may not be true across the board, but the author's assumptions are far reaching. I mean, 250k? Really? I'm not questioning his honesty, I just envy the bubble he lives in.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#248

Post by throwaway_goog »

lcr94 wrote: post #233
mrshoe wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That this is currently the top comment reinforces the author's hypothesis that many software engineers underestimate how much they could make at a large company. > 250k a year in 5 years at a big corporation, really? Yes, really. > Yea if you're lucky to work on a project/team higher-ups care about and are also willing to bust your ass working long hours to meet insane deadlines. Nope, not true. > So I think this art…

This style of reply is not constructive. How can we know with certainty whether or not you have a reasonable shot at making 250k/year after five years of working at Apple, Amazon, Google, or Microsoft? Provide an anecdote, links to articles, etc.

Throwaway because I don't want my salary history to become public.

I spent 5 years at Google. My AGI (as measured by the IRS) during my time there went $130K, $200K, $280K, $280K, $300K, $356K (for my last 5 months there...it also includes unexercised stock options for the last 5 years, though). The bump to $280K was upon promotion to senior SWE; the one to $200K was largely because of a generous stock refresh grant.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#249

Post by rockinghigh »

lcr94 wrote: post #233
mrshoe wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That this is currently the top comment reinforces the author's hypothesis that many software engineers underestimate how much they could make at a large company. > 250k a year in 5 years at a big corporation, really? Yes, really. > Yea if you're lucky to work on a project/team higher-ups care about and are also willing to bust your ass working long hours to meet insane deadlines. Nope, not true. > So I think this art…

This style of reply is not constructive. How can we know with certainty whether or not you have a reasonable shot at making 250k/year after five years of working at Apple, Amazon, Google, or Microsoft? Provide an anecdote, links to articles, etc.

If you're talking about total compensation, 250k is on the low end. Base of $140-190k is common. Add to that $10-30k of cash bonus and $100k of stocks.
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