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Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

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Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#11

Post by hacknat »

When it comes to compensation I think it's pretty clear that Big Companies win. You don't even need to point to Google, Facebook, etc to make this point.

However, his argument becomes truly hand-wavey and spurious when it comes to the interesting work part. Of course some of the most interesting tech papers are coming out of Google, that doesn't mean anything for the average Google employee. Also, in his, argument, he goes from "here's what the average can expect for compensation" to, "you need leverage to work on interesting things at big companies...get some".

Of course not all start ups provide interesting work, but I think the dice roll is solidly in the camp of start ups for interesting work against the Big Cos, whose interesting work dice roll, I would guess, is similar to the start up comp dice roll. Unless rebuilding a bog standard UI framework is your thing.

At my first startup job I got to:

- build a compiler

- implement shared memory on high traffic services

- play with any language I wanted

- manage smart and interesting people

- more stuff, but I'm tired of typing.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#12

Post by jzwinck »

herge wrote: post #7

I'd recommend anyone looking for their first job out of university to consider strongly a job at a startup. Consider it a 'finishing school', where you'll have the highest chance to touch as many different technologies and tasks as possible (from system administration, to backend to frontend work), as opposed to the 'Big Company' where (especially for a first job) you'll be focused on one task. The important thing is…

I went about it the opposite way, and can definitely recommend that as well: big company first, then small. The big company experience shows you a ton of things, like how to interview, build, and deploy at scale. The small company can benefit from your ability to bring order to chaos, develop tools which are obvious in any big company but strangely missing from every small one, and more.

Maybe it doesn't matter which one you start with, but you should give both a try at some point.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#13

Post by jerf »

vinceguidry wrote: post #5

I didn't do more than browse the article because I didn't need to hear the arguments to accept the conclusion. I think the only place perhaps in the world where working in a startup could be seen as any way superior to working at an established business is in Silicon Valley, where enormous amounts of VC money come together to create a modern Rome. Certainly we need Rome, the modern world wouldn't have existed without…

It isn't necessarily an either/or proposition. Between remote offices, remote work, or local startups, you can live in $NOT_SV and pick certain elements of the SV lifestyle that you may appreciate. You don't get full unrestrained choice, but, well, you never do anyhow, so shrug. Tech workers can still have it better than most could even dream of.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#14

Post by untog »

jzwinck wrote: post #12
herge wrote: post #7

I'd recommend anyone looking for their first job out of university to consider strongly a job at a startup. Consider it a 'finishing school', where you'll have the highest chance to touch as many different technologies and tasks as possible (from system administration, to backend to frontend work), as opposed to the 'Big Company' where (especially for a first job) you'll be focused on one task. The important thing is…

I went about it the opposite way, and can definitely recommend that as well: big company first, then small. The big company experience shows you a ton of things, like how to interview, build, and deploy at scale. The small company can benefit from your ability to bring order to chaos, develop tools which are obvious in any big company but strangely missing from every small one, and more. Maybe it doesn't matter which…

Agreed. Large companies have entire programs for the intake of new graduates. At a startup you're much more likely to be left to find your own way - which can be great, but can also be awful.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#15

Post by jzwinck »

jerf wrote: post #9
herge wrote: post #7

I'd recommend anyone looking for their first job out of university to consider strongly a job at a startup. Consider it a 'finishing school', where you'll have the highest chance to touch as many different technologies and tasks as possible (from system administration, to backend to frontend work), as opposed to the 'Big Company' where (especially for a first job) you'll be focused on one task. The important thing is…

I agree, but a year's a bit tight. You may want to give yourself an option of another 6-12 months, if your job is still rotating through things and changing enough that you're not pigeonholed yet. I'm not sure I could put into words why, but I'd look much more favorably on two years rather than one if I was looking at your future resume. Flip side, I'd also add an option at months three and six to ask myself whether…

> another 6-12 months, if your job is still rotating through things and changing enough that you're not pigeonholed yet

This reads as if you're advocating against ever becoming an expert in anything. A few months is nothing--if the domain is difficult you're barely up to speed.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#16

Post by vinceguidry »

jerf wrote: post #13
vinceguidry wrote: post #5

I didn't do more than browse the article because I didn't need to hear the arguments to accept the conclusion. I think the only place perhaps in the world where working in a startup could be seen as any way superior to working at an established business is in Silicon Valley, where enormous amounts of VC money come together to create a modern Rome. Certainly we need Rome, the modern world wouldn't have existed without…

It isn't necessarily an either/or proposition. Between remote offices, remote work, or local startups, you can live in $NOT_SV and pick certain elements of the SV lifestyle that you may appreciate. You don't get full unrestrained choice, but, well, you never do anyhow, so shrug . Tech workers can still have it better than most could even dream of.

Remote work is one of those Roman ideas that I just can't bring myself to be interested enough in to try. Sit at home all day with nobody but the cat for company while everyone else is at work / school? Give me a regular desk and let me see my coworkers in person every day.

Besides, from what I've gathered from the job postings here, SV startups mostly don't hire remote workers. You're expected to move to Rome.

Local startups offer substandard salaries, the very real proposition that your company will run out of money, and inevitable reticence on the part of the founders to clue you in as to how the company is really doing. No thanks.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#17

Post by charleslmunger »

exstudent2 wrote: post #2

I don't think you can go into a company as large as Google and expect your salary to double in five years. HR will have set limits to how much of a raise you can get in any given year and even with promotions you would be very unlikely to see that kind of bump. I also don't think the middling programmers he mentions would hit the 250k year mark. Orthogonal to the point of the article, but the only time you can really…

Counterexample: I was hired straight out of school at a big company 2 1/2 years ago, at slightly more than the author describes (100k and change salary, ~100k equity over four years, 15% bonus target). I've been promoted twice, and my income over the next year will hit the double mark for total compensation.

I've been promoted faster than most, but my numbers stretched over a 5 year timespan still work out.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#18

Post by thesimon »

Tangential to this article, but >pay outside of the US is often much lower for reasons that don’t really make sense to me).

Can someone explain why salaries in for example Europe are so much less? Out of uni salary for example seems to be around 38k in Europe, whereas in US everything under 90k seems very low. Just the difference in purchase power and costs?

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#19

Post by matwood »

exstudent2 wrote: post #2

I don't think you can go into a company as large as Google and expect your salary to double in five years. HR will have set limits to how much of a raise you can get in any given year and even with promotions you would be very unlikely to see that kind of bump. I also don't think the middling programmers he mentions would hit the 250k year mark. Orthogonal to the point of the article, but the only time you can really…

Usually the number is total comp, salary + stock. So maybe $150k/year salary and $100k in stock that vests over X years with more possibly added. At that point, ~%10 raise/year would get someone close to $250k. I assume someone would have to bust their butt for a 10%, but it is not an unheard of number.

Re: Big Company vs. Startup Work and Compensation

#20

Post by somic »

thesimon wrote: post #18

Tangential to this article, but >pay outside of the US is often much lower for reasons that don’t really make sense to me). Can someone explain why salaries in for example Europe are so much less? Out of uni salary for example seems to be around 38k in Europe, whereas in US everything under 90k seems very low. Just the difference in purchase power and costs?

Supply and demand.
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