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My positive experience as a woman in tech

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Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#181

Post by CaptSpify »

kelukelugames wrote: post #126
golergka wrote: post #48

> It’s impossible to know, especially since they don’t know either! If you confront them on their sexism, they will deny all of it, and truly believe it. It takes a lot of introspection to see one’s internalized stereotypes. Therefore, a lot of the time, you cannot be sure if you have experienced sexist behavior, and there is no way to find out for sure, since the perpetrator doesn’t know either. There are many false…

My co worker accuses other people of being "tone deaf" and then makes dick jokes. I have about a million examples of this. Of course, some of those stories are about me. :P People are too unwilling to admit and learn from their own mistakes.

> "tone deaf" and then makes dick jokes

What does "tone deaf" mean in this context? And what's wrong with dick-jokes?

EDIT: I've poorly worded my question/point: I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with dick jokes in the workplace, but context is key. It's probably best to side on safe in that regard

I still would like to know what "tone deaf" means as I'm not understanding that term

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#182

Post by jakobegger »

douche wrote: post #173
SCHiM wrote: post #110

Keep in mind that the situation she recalls, the one with the guy that apologizes to her for cussing, is perhaps not the sort of sexism you would want to try and get rid of. The way I see it, this coming from a early 20s male (read, shall we say, constantly aware of the opposing sex), is that that attempt to be polite to a woman has nothing to do with her being a woman in tech, but simply being a woman in a social si…

Women really, really, don't want to be treated the way men treat each other when they get together without external sources of censure. Trust me on that.

I'm not totally sure what you are talking about, but I don't think I want to be treated like that either. (I'm male)

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#183

Post by SolaceQuantum »

mycroft-holmes wrote: post #63
cubano wrote: post #27

Here is my personal experience with the fringes of this issue over a lifetime of watching it play out before my eyes... If a female is attracted to the guy, things he says or does are considered "cute", "flirtatious", and/or "interesting". If not, the same actions are often considered "creepy", "jerkish", and yes even "sexist". I think its just human nature to perceive things in this way, and since women grow up in s…

I'd say you're absolutely correct. I laugh when I see feminist friends of mine who complain about "creepy" guys approaching them at coffee shops and days later they'll talk about how they hate being single and want to meet someone.

I'll be honest I'm usually in a coffee shop to study and read and think to myself or with a friend. I'd be creeped out if a total stranger got in my space to flirt with me out of nowhere. Some people need to have time to mentally prepare for certain types of social interaction.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#184

Post by CaptSpify »

SCHiM wrote: post #110

Keep in mind that the situation she recalls, the one with the guy that apologizes to her for cussing, is perhaps not the sort of sexism you would want to try and get rid of. The way I see it, this coming from a early 20s male (read, shall we say, constantly aware of the opposing sex), is that that attempt to be polite to a woman has nothing to do with her being a woman in tech, but simply being a woman in a social si…

> Keep in mind that the situation she recalls, the one with the guy that apologizes to her for cussing, is perhaps not the sort of sexism you would want to try and get rid of.

IME, I would respectfully disagree. I'm not a woman, and I'm sure you can find some for which this is true and some for which it is untrue, but....

My perception is that women want to be "one of the guys" just as much as guys do. If you want to censor yourself around "polite company", by all means, I think there's nothing wrong with that. But if you want to censor yourself because there's a woman around, that's still sexism, although a more polite, accepted form of sexism.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#185

Post by Dirlewanger »

adrianN wrote: post #11
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #6

Sexism is not "over-rated" OECD's Social Institutions and Gender Index Is at http://www.genderindex.org , and is a litany of baked in prejudice, violence, lack of access to education, lack of access to property and other normal legal rights. When we compare the lot of a 16 yo girl in Rwanda to a High schooler in SF, yes it is hard to find where the High schooler is having problems, but we just have to look at the rat…

I'm still not convinced that the lack of women in tech is due to sexism. Maybe women just aren't as excited by the field as men? Nobody seems to question that this is the reason why there are so few male preschool teachers.

There is an excellent Norwegian documentary, Hjernevask, that explores this question and many others like it. The premise is set up in the first couple minutes of the first episode: why is it that in one of the most gender equal countries in the world that women and men still flocked to traditional jobs? It had such an impact that the government decided to shut down their Gender Studies Institute.

But you won't see these kinds of things discussed on HN. I'll be surprised if I don't get any ad hominems lazily labeling me as a redpiller.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#186

Post by mtrimpe »

indifferentalex wrote: post #19

10/10 Will read again. The sexism debate has indeed painted a bleak picture, people so often try to show a different side of the picture but end up using the wrong words or simply adding ambiguity to the discussion, most of the time only making the matter more complicated, and worst of all, pulling us even further from a potential solution. This one showed us not only a potential solution, but also proved it's effect…

I really enjoyed the article but I hope that the conclusion is that it's now possible to live in a bubble (not meant pejoratively) where you don't experience sexism.

Being able to live in that bubble is probably dependent on class, status, confidence and certain personality traits; but it is possible and that's great!

It is really important though to realize that it is a bubble and to be mindful of where it ends and what happens when you hit the edges of the bubble.

Source: Being LGBT in Amsterdam and having lived in a similar bubble for a long time but eventually having it burst.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#187

Post by coldtea »

reitanqild wrote: post #157
tomp wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So who exactly is good in this situation? And please don't say the "soldiers" who invaded Iraq...

I specified good because we both know not all cops are good. As for the soldiers that invaded Iraq I'd say you should judge the politicians first. I guess a lot of the soldiers felt a lot like the German soldiers that invaded certain European countries and were surprised to be shot at when they were told and many honestly thought they came to protect the locals against an imminent attack from British forces. Edit: an…

>Edit: and lets not forget that it was lame European pacifist politicians that let Hitler get so far.

Actually Hitler was much beloved in the United States, right until quite close to the start of the war. Seen as a champion against communism -- like other murderers were later, e.g. Pinochet.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#188

Post by kelukelugames »

CaptSpify wrote: post #181
kelukelugames wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My co worker accuses other people of being "tone deaf" and then makes dick jokes. I have about a million examples of this. Of course, some of those stories are about me. :P People are too unwilling to admit and learn from their own mistakes.

> "tone deaf" and then makes dick jokes What does "tone deaf" mean in this context? And what's wrong with dick-jokes? EDIT: I've poorly worded my question/point: I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with dick jokes in the workplace, but context is key. It's probably best to side on safe in that regard I still would like to know what "tone deaf" means as I'm not understanding that term

Do you really think it's okay to make dick jokes in the workplace?

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#189

Post by CaptSpify »

etiene wrote: post #122
cubano wrote: post #27

Here is my personal experience with the fringes of this issue over a lifetime of watching it play out before my eyes... If a female is attracted to the guy, things he says or does are considered "cute", "flirtatious", and/or "interesting". If not, the same actions are often considered "creepy", "jerkish", and yes even "sexist". I think its just human nature to perceive things in this way, and since women grow up in s…

Just a heads up about flirting. The same thing could be said the other way around. The fact alone that a guy is flirting is not the reason it might be considered creepy or jerkish. It's the fact that they do it anyway when the woman is _visibly_ uncomfortable / trying to be alone / not interested or worse, when they keep flirting even after hearing a solid no. If a woman did that, you'd say to the very least that she…

> _visibly_ uncomfortable / trying to be alone / not interested or worse, when they keep flirting even after hearing a solid no.

I think this tends to be compounded by 2 things:

1) A lot of guys, especially engineer-types, just don't get the signals, even if they are obvious.

2) A lot of women still play "hard to get" and a lot of guys like that. It's a hard game for some people to play.

I absolutely agree with you though

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#190

Post by orangecat »

Already__Taken wrote: post #13
adrianN wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still not convinced that the lack of women in tech is due to sexism. Maybe women just aren't as excited by the field as men? Nobody seems to question that this is the reason why there are so few male preschool teachers.

There a few male preschool teachers because of the threat of accusations and prejudice. I work in schools, you're told not to be alone with children. You can work 10 or 20 years to get into your stride teaching in lower school and it can be all undone in one bad press piece. It's a massive problem.

I agree that the paranoia of adult males being around children is ridiculous, but are there really that many men out there who totally wanted to be preschool teachers but decided not to for that reason?
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