The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam • Hacker News Board

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#111

Post by discardorama » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 2:28 PM UTC

saint_fiasco wrote: post #104

nashashmi wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to put the blame on to any "one" reason for Southern Europe doing badly, but I came across an article that probably gave a better reason why there was so much difference between North and South Europe, and the theory it presents is religious difference between Protestantism and Catholicism. Protestant (read the bible) & Catholic (follow the pope). This gave the north literary rise, and literary history, and ad…

If that is the case, Southern European corruption should reduce in the future, because now Catholics are literate too. India still has terrible public education, so it may take them longer to catch up.

> India still has terrible public education, so it may take them longer to catch up.

India is a _very_ big country; as big as all of Europe, if not bigger. There are parts of India that are highly educated; in fact, the southern Indian state of Kerala has nearly 100% literacy. And corruption is plentiful there too.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#112

Post by crdoconnor » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 2:29 PM UTC

amag wrote: post #79

NicoJuicy wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what i always thought. Many people always think that lower wages for politicians will solve anything ( because they are mostly jealous) I don't think it does

I lived in Thailand when the now deposed Thaksin Shinawatras party Thai Rak Thai won the election in 2001. I remember many Thais saying he was the ideal PM because he was the richest man in Thailand and because he was the richest man, he would never be corrupted. Fast-forward five years and the military deposed him because of his corrupt politics. As long as you have a salary you can support yourself and your family…

>Fast-forward five years and the military deposed him because of his corrupt politics.

Bullshit. The military deposed him because they were grabbing power and because they were worried about his close relationship with the crown prince.

Thaksin's power base lies in the rural poverty-stricken north. He was the first politician to actually help them. That's why he was so popular.

They all knew he was corrupt, but their choice was between corrupt who would help them and corrupt who would fuck them.

Thailand turned from a democracy into a dictatorship because of power hungry assholes. It had nothing to do with corruption.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#113

Post by mikeash » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 2:29 PM UTC

saint_fiasco wrote: post #101

mikeash wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought it was so they could reject undesirables (wrong ancestry and such) without having to give the real reason.

I heard something similar too, that Harvard felt they were admitting too many Jews so they started using other criteria instead of just the written tests for admission. Now they are probably using the subjective tests to attract disadvantaged minorities.

I also thought it was the Jews, I was just a little too timid to say so directly!

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#114

Post by Amezarak » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 2:45 PM UTC

lmartel wrote: post #44

CaptainZapp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was about to downvote you, since I think this statemment is, well, moronic. Instead I kindly ask you to elaborate on just one situation, where exceeding the speed limit avoids danger. Edited to add : To be clear: Speeding up upon overtaking doesn't count. If you need to do that you should not have overtaken in the first place, since it was obviously dangerous.

If the posted speed limit is 55 and everyone but you is going 80, then exceeding the speed limit avoids danger. There's your situation. [Of course, you'd never get a ticket in this situation, and I think there are even legal provisions regarding respecting the "flow of traffic" in some US states.]

> [Of course, you'd never get a ticket in this situation, and I think there are even legal provisions regarding respecting the "flow of traffic" in some US states.]

This is exactly how I got my first ticket. I was moving with the flow of traffic, which was going about 15mph over the 55mph speed limit on a busy four lane divided highway. Highway Patrol flew up out of nowhere, angrily berated me for five minutes, and gave me a speeding ticket.

Now I just go the speed limit. People cuss me out and flip me off, but that's preferable to paying several hundred dollars. (And for me, it turns out not to really be worth it anyway. Most places I go speeding saves me Can you, by the way, cite any state laws explicitly saying it is OK to exceed the posted speed limit if doing so is required to move with the flow of traffic? I have heard this claim a lot but I have never been able to find real proof of it. There are sometimes "flow of traffic" laws applicable if you're driving too far below the posted speed limit, which is assumed (wrongly) to be the maximum "normal and reasonable" speed of normal traffic, and there are laws against driving slowly in the left lanes, and sometimes laws that allow you to speed while passing on a two-lane road, but I have never seen one that was applicable to someone driving at or above the speed limit and would have allowed them to legally speed.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#115

Post by sithadmin » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 2:56 PM UTC

anovikov wrote: post #19

aianus wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in Romania and Vietnam, you learn to appreciate the efficiency of just paying the bribe and getting on with your life. For example, if I get caught speeding I can bribe a cop for like $20 in Eastern Europe or Asia versus losing $1000s in Canada between fines and insurance premium increases. I personally find it a lot less stressful than living in Canada where every time I see a cop I get a little adrenal…

Other side of the life is chaos, crime, pollution and insecurity, and not unimportant for the crowd here, low company valuations vs their profits in those countries. Exactly because laws don't work. No startups in the proper sense can exist in such conditions, because contracts can't enforced, intellectual property rights can't be protected, and venture capital is impossible because money can be only loaned for the p…

>In Europe, it strongly depends on the fraction of Orthodox population.

Wait, what? Mind unpacking that idea a bit?

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#116

Post by rubidium » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 3:06 PM UTC

saint_fiasco wrote: post #105

LoSboccacc wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 Italian here. It's not just corruption here but almost every social interaction is built as an exchange of favours. From having a job to not getting screwed from the auto shop, you live off a network of people owing you and you get in their circles by owing them back. It's a very powerful system because everyone understands the honour it's based on, you can't track it because it's immaterial and it's so widespread…

>everyone understands the honour it's based on That's the terrible thing about corruption. Sometimes it's not based in selfishness, but in honor and generosity. It's just that old ideas about being honorable, a good provider, putting family and friends first and all that, are actually pretty terrible in modern bureaucracies.

So is it the modern bureaucracies that are terrible?

Or the "old ideas"?

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#117

Post by vinceguidry » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 3:09 PM UTC

aianus wrote: post #29

frozenport wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Russians are terrified of the police, because they know that they can ask for a `bribe` even if you haven't done anything wrong. The problem with corrupt isn't that the rules benefit one party or another, rather that they are unpredictable.

In Canada everybody speeds all the time. In fact, it would be unsafe not to speed on the 401 as you'd be driving considerably slower than everyone else. So the enforcement randomness is the same, it's just the penalties are stiffer and longer-lasting.

I don't understand why you're getting downvoted. Speeding is endemic in the US as well, and the penalties are onerous for pretty much everyone but the well-off. Speed limits should be raised to fit the speed everyone actually drives at, obviously it's not that unsafe, but no area has done that.

I think you bring up good points about the relative scariness of Western selective enforcement as compared to developing world systemic corruption. Seems like if you keep your head up, you can escape getting targeted by the corrupt status quo. But in the West, people seem to get caught up in political whirlwinds with frightening randomness. Some dude's carrying cash to complete a seemingly routine business transaction the same way everybody in his town's always done it, and gets targeted for asset forfeiture.

The scale of Western corruption can't rise to the level of the whole society, and that on the whole seems to make it worse rather than better when it actually surfaces.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#118

Post by saint_fiasco » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 3:22 PM UTC

rubidium wrote: post #116

saint_fiasco wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>everyone understands the honour it's based on That's the terrible thing about corruption. Sometimes it's not based in selfishness, but in honor and generosity. It's just that old ideas about being honorable, a good provider, putting family and friends first and all that, are actually pretty terrible in modern bureaucracies.

So is it the modern bureaucracies that are terrible? Or the "old ideas"?

It's the mismatch. Honor and reputation work for small high-trust societies where everyone knows each other, but a nation state (not to mention a global economy) requires more robust enforcement mechanisms.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#119

Post by jackhack » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 3:23 PM UTC

crdoconnor wrote: post #112

amag wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Thailand when the now deposed Thaksin Shinawatras party Thai Rak Thai won the election in 2001. I remember many Thais saying he was the ideal PM because he was the richest man in Thailand and because he was the richest man, he would never be corrupted. Fast-forward five years and the military deposed him because of his corrupt politics. As long as you have a salary you can support yourself and your family…

>Fast-forward five years and the military deposed him because of his corrupt politics. Bullshit. The military deposed him because they were grabbing power and because they were worried about his close relationship with the crown prince. Thaksin's power base lies in the rural poverty-stricken north. He was the first politician to actually help them. That's why he was so popular. They all knew he was corrupt, but their…

Please, let's keep HN respectful and not devolve into reddit, even if you disagree strongly.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#120

Post by Shivetya » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 3:30 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #89

Rainymood wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the reasons top politicians are paid so well. We can complain about their salary all day long but they make important decisions and a higher salary directly impacts the effectiveness of a bribe.

Are you in the US? Even at the federal levels, politicians' salaries aren't particularly high, relative to what those same people could earn in the private sector. Congressmen earn $174,000. That's not a huge amount for a group that largely consists of successful lawyers, with a smattering of doctors and other businessmen. Many of them are millionaires before they take office. The governor of my state (Virginia) is p…

Sorry, the idea of comparing their salaries to what they could supposedly earn outside of government is just wrong. First not all of may have had substantial jobs or education prior to running for office. Lastly, most of them become quite well off after leaving office from speaking fees if not retirement.

They are excessively paid relative to the average American and their salaries should be curtailed to that of average American's so there might be some incentive to improving that. People bemoan golden parachutes of some executives in the private world but would be aghast if they learned just how overpaid many state elected and appointed officials are and some even double dip.

Political office should be service, not a damn lottery winning