My positive experience as a woman in tech • Hacker News Board

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#91

Post by aikah » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 1:55 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #74

That's the general theme of public discourse... Americans killing Muslims in Iraq are "soldiers", wherears Muslims killing Americans in the US are "terrorists". Edit: Looks like I've hit a very sore point...

> That's the general theme of public discourse... Americans killing Muslims in Iraq are "soldiers", wherears Muslims killing Americans in the US are "terrorists".

Americans aren't killing Muslims in Iraq just because they are muslims. That's a straw-man.

> wherears Muslims killing Americans in the US are "terrorists"

(Some) Muslim extremists certainly are killing americans because of what they are and what they believe in. They are effectively called terrorists because they don't kill soldiers.

They go kill random civilians in the streets.

A soldier that would do the same would be charged with war-crime, and it happened.

Quit your post-modernist framework which is making you say despicable things frankly.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#92

Post by jnbiche » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 1:57 PM UTC

golergka wrote: post #73

DanBC wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and comments have always been supportive. There's a sizable minority of HN commenters who deny sexism exists.

> There's a sizable minority of HN commenters who deny sexism exists. It's always good to have a minority that questions the consensus. Even if this minority is something completely idiotic, like a "flat earth society".

I agree strongly with this statement. But most people seem to think that having a subgroup with "verboten" opinions is a liability, not an asset.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#93

Post by tomp » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 1:59 PM UTC

reitanqild wrote: post #89

tomp wrote: post #74

That's the general theme of public discourse... Americans killing Muslims in Iraq are "soldiers", wherears Muslims killing Americans in the US are "terrorists". Edit: Looks like I've hit a very sore point...

Did you ever attend military training? I assume no because then you would know that there is a massive difference between somebody in civilian clothes attacking random people and soldiers in uniform and/or with other clearly visible signs that clearly tells they are combatants attacking people who were likely to be dangerous. That said, there's a lot to say about the notions that "(American) soldiers are good, insurg…

> people who were likely to be dangerous

That's a convenient excuse. The number of civilian causalties in Iraq makes me unlikely to believe it.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#94

Post by pervycreeper » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 1:59 PM UTC

Blackstone's formulation for those who didn't bother to click through:

>"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

Wise to keep this in mind if you wish to be justice-conscious.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#95

Post by FussyZeus » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 2:00 PM UTC

Personally I've only ever witnessed sexism at play in larger companies, startup culture by it's nature I think is anti-sexist, the highly competitive market for employees combined with the sense of "who gives a shit about genders, we gotta get this thing fixed NOW" kind of makes it a defacto meritocracy.

Not to say that it can't happen in startups of course, just saying in the Perfect World, a startup culture would eliminate it before it even had a chance to take foothold.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#96

Post by tomp » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 2:01 PM UTC

aikah wrote: post #91

tomp wrote: post #74

That's the general theme of public discourse... Americans killing Muslims in Iraq are "soldiers", wherears Muslims killing Americans in the US are "terrorists". Edit: Looks like I've hit a very sore point...

> That's the general theme of public discourse... Americans killing Muslims in Iraq are "soldiers", wherears Muslims killing Americans in the US are "terrorists". Americans aren't killing Muslims in Iraq just because they are muslims. That's a straw-man. > wherears Muslims killing Americans in the US are "terrorists" (Some) Muslim extremists certainly are killing americans because of what they are and what they belie…

> Americans aren't killing Muslims in Iraq just because they are muslims.

Then s/Muslims/Iraqis/. But then, what about Palestine, Syria, Lybia, ...? On the other hand, I'm sure they aren't killing Americans because they're Americans either... but because they the agressors.

> They go kill random civilians in the streets.

What would you do, if a technologically-superior country was killing your friends, family, children? They fight any way they can, and hurt us where it hurts us most.

> A soldier that would do the same would be charged with war-crime, and it happened.

Wait, more than 150k civilians were killed in Iraq. I don't recall seeing that many war-crime trials.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#97

Post by rootlocus » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 2:02 PM UTC

lmm wrote: post #9

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #4

> "Ironically, one of the very few times I have experienced any sexism in the industry was when a dude was trying to be nice to me." I'm not sure how ironic this is. It seems to be setting up a straw man of sexist behaviour being the domain of moustache-twirling villians, rather than something that often perfectly normal men and women inflict on each other and experience unwanted outcomes of because of their culture…

I think the point is that deliberately trying to accommodate women can result in being more sexist. Which is pretty ironic.

Made even more ironic by all the 'feminists' that use sexism as an excuse for special treatment.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#98

Post by douche » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 2:06 PM UTC

burkaman wrote: post #52

Chris2048 wrote: post #40

I think, when we see things like this, we maybe need to clarify where (country) these experiences come from. I suspect that the worst of sexism in tech comes from the US, and that Europe is generally great...

Why do you suspect that?

Because Europe is a socialist, progressive paradise, full to the brim with sunshine and unicorns! /s

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#99

Post by beachstartup » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 2:09 PM UTC

cubano wrote: post #27

Here is my personal experience with the fringes of this issue over a lifetime of watching it play out before my eyes... If a female is attracted to the guy, things he says or does are considered "cute", "flirtatious", and/or "interesting". If not, the same actions are often considered "creepy", "jerkish", and yes even "sexist". I think its just human nature to perceive things in this way, and since women grow up in s…

my personal belief is that the vast majority of these horror stories are simply the behavior of the huge number of socially awkward and unattractive men in our industry. they go through life pretty much offending everyone, until they learn social skills and mature a bit.

i've been on the receiving end of it because of my ethnic background.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#100

Post by meowface » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 2:09 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #67

meowface wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it generally okay to swear in front of men but generally not okay to swear in front of women? That's a pretty sexist, and condescending, point of view. Sure, there are gender differences. But I don't think "genetic vulnerability to profanity" is one of them.

In my experience, with my friends, male friends are much more likely to swear than female. So it's reasonable to assume they would also be more accepting of other people swearing, and generalize this assumption to other people.

That's fair; I can see why you'd have that viewpoint, in that case. In my own experience, my male and female friends all swear with about equal frequency. I've never noticed a trend like that myself. It might be area- and culture-dependent to some degree, maybe? I live on the US east coast.