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The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

theguardian.com

21–30 of 182 posts

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#21
When the selection process is too competitive, it begins to select wrong people.

The right way is probably a test one should merely pass and then lottery. Guarantees that you bring some genuinely worthy people onboard and not just really well connected or spearheaded.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#22
post #13

This one reads like a Mystery novel, if not for the deaths of many people, it is utterly fascinating insight into Indian politics, power brokers and moneyed interests. The trail of death is unheard of, even though the trail of corruption is more or less accepted. There is no trust in the Police force there would be a thorough investigation and any high-profile case involves CBI, which is nominally independent and it…

eh you are too pessimistic, like many comments in the thread. There are still many people in the system who work daily for the betterment of the country. There are concrete steps being taken to battle corruption. It is not black and white

Your comment is any thing but concrete. Please enlighten me, with what those concrete steps are that have made dent in the monumental corruption of India's Political and Bureaucratic classes.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#24
post #17
post #14

It is hard for those in Western countries to imagine what it is like to live in a corrupt state like that. Eastern Europe is like that as well. Corruption is a way of life. It starts from bribing the doctor who will deliver the baby, to bribing kindergarten teachers, to high school teachers, paying to cheat on a state exam, buying a driver's license etc, until bribing the cemetery to take make an extra spot for the d…

Having lived in Romania and Vietnam, you learn to appreciate the efficiency of just paying the bribe and getting on with your life. For example, if I get caught speeding I can bribe a cop for like $20 in Eastern Europe or Asia versus losing $1000s in Canada between fines and insurance premium increases. I personally find it a lot less stressful than living in Canada where every time I see a cop I get a little adrenal…

So, do you speed in Canada?

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#25
post #6

This sort of corruption is still running strong here in India. A few days ago an acquaintance of my father told him that he knows a guy who can get her daughter a government job for a fee of 8 lakhs (~$12,000). And that he would go for it, given he had this much money. The sentiment was that he treats this bribe as an investment, which can be recovered from the job salary in a couple years and is worth it.

this blocks a lot of economic growth because many people consider buying into a government job an investment...

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#26

As an Indian I often wonder, the real question is not why India is so corrupt(esp. at the lower levels of bureaucracy), rather how come certain countries have zero corruption at those levels? Perhaps I'm too pessimistic about human nature.

Because corruption is a thing that enters from the top down. If the cadre is corrupt then corruption will be seen as 'ok'. If the cadre is incorruptible then they can make a demand of those below them to act in a similar way or be booted out. The change from a corrupt state to one that isn't takes multiple decades, it is not something you can do overnight and at any point in time the arrow can reverse. The same goes for states that have low corruption today, that is not a guarantee for low corruption in the future.

China is interesting in this respect, on the one hand corruption is rife, on the other it is nominally totally out of bounds and the punishments are severe. I don't understand how those can both be true at the same time without a huge amount of selective enforcement.

My experience with India to date has one of utter amazement at the brashness and the degree to which corruption has infused society there. I suspect that for India a part of it is that it has social classes that are very disjoint. This creates a very fertile growth medium for corruption because it puts a lot of small people in positions of relatively large amounts of power over the lives of others.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#27
post #17
post #14

It is hard for those in Western countries to imagine what it is like to live in a corrupt state like that. Eastern Europe is like that as well. Corruption is a way of life. It starts from bribing the doctor who will deliver the baby, to bribing kindergarten teachers, to high school teachers, paying to cheat on a state exam, buying a driver's license etc, until bribing the cemetery to take make an extra spot for the d…

Having lived in Romania and Vietnam, you learn to appreciate the efficiency of just paying the bribe and getting on with your life. For example, if I get caught speeding I can bribe a cop for like $20 in Eastern Europe or Asia versus losing $1000s in Canada between fines and insurance premium increases. I personally find it a lot less stressful than living in Canada where every time I see a cop I get a little adrenal…

Most Russians are terrified of the police, because they know that they can ask for a `bribe` even if you haven't done anything wrong.

The problem with corrupt isn't that the rules benefit one party or another, rather that they are unpredictable.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#28
I've come to the conclusion over the last several years and specifically after spending a bit of time in India, that corruption is the #1 challenge facing humanity.

In the past I believed that poverty was largely due to a lack of resources (food, housing, etc) but I've come to believe that corruption is actually the source of this "lack of resources" -- the resources are most likely not lacking at all, they are probably just being distributed in a massively improper way due to corruption.

When you see the amount of poverty on the streets of Mumbai in person and realize that the government is involved in just ONE scam with a value of up to 22 billion pounds, it really brings things into focus. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/16/india-corruptio...

And parts of the developed world, like the US, are just as corrupt (or more corrupt) than India, only in different and potentially even more damaging ways, like having an election system captured by corporations.

Until corruption is tackled, I don't think we're going to solve issues like poverty, hunger, and climate change. But corruption can only thrive in the dark and my hope is that the internet will allow a light to be shined in the dark corners of both developed and developing nations.

Maybe the ultimate question we should ask is why individual people feel the need to accumulate enormous sums of wealth, at all. My opinion is that it is the result of deep-seated fears about "losing everything" and ending up impoverished. Until societies can guarantee EVERY citizen a right to food and shelter, regardless of the ability of the person to create income, the citizens of that society will manifest their fear in the form of hording and, sometimes, corruption.

I have no problem with people like Bill Gates earning vast amounts of money by adding value to the world, but we can allow individuals to accumulate that sort of wealth while still proving a safety net for every individual in society. Perhaps this safety net will assuage the fear that, I believe, ultimately inspires at least a good portion of corruption.

Despite all of humanity's achievements, we are still living like animals, ruled by fear, where the law of the jungle still reigns.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#29
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in Romania and Vietnam, you learn to appreciate the efficiency of just paying the bribe and getting on with your life. For example, if I get caught speeding I can bribe a cop for like $20 in Eastern Europe or Asia versus losing $1000s in Canada between fines and insurance premium increases. I personally find it a lot less stressful than living in Canada where every time I see a cop I get a little adrenal…

Most Russians are terrified of the police, because they know that they can ask for a `bribe` even if you haven't done anything wrong. The problem with corrupt isn't that the rules benefit one party or another, rather that they are unpredictable.

In Canada everybody speeds all the time. In fact, it would be unsafe not to speed on the 401 as you'd be driving considerably slower than everyone else.

So the enforcement randomness is the same, it's just the penalties are stiffer and longer-lasting.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#30
> Nothing else matters – not your grades over 12 years of school, nor any hobbies, interests or transformative life experiences.

Good. The US habit of putting bullshit criteria in the admission score is just a way to subjectively select the desired candidates regardless of their merit. And there's no objective way to grade essays, extracurricular activities, obligatory volunteering, interviews, teacher recommendations, being liked by the admission officers, being in a hip minority, etc.

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