Live data from Hacker News

Tech and Banking Giants Ditch Bitcoin for Their Own Blockchain

wired.com

41–50 of 107 posts

Re: Tech and Banking Giants Ditch Bitcoin for Their Own Blockchain

#41

For anyone who needs a (very simplified) primer on the blockchain and why it's relevant for banks: A blockchain is a ledger (piece of paper that records transactions) with perfect memory of every single transaction that has ever occurred within a certain network. This makes double spending within the network impossible as you can trace every single coin in the network back to its origin, verifying that your trading p…

How do the banks ensure that aren't outmined? One of the key components of a blockchain is that no one mines more than half that chain.

If you have too many blockchains, then you split the miners between the chains and open the doors for a big player to come in and overwhelm the other miners on that chain.

I suppose you could somehow implement private blockchains where only those with the private key can participate, but I don't know whether this has been done or not.

Re: Tech and Banking Giants Ditch Bitcoin for Their Own Blockchain

#42
Both Nasdaq omx [0] and Overstock t0.com [1], mentioned in the article, seem to use the Bitcoin Blockchain to peg their internal currency against, they're sidechains, not completely separate blockchains...

[0]: https://coincenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/SecondLett...

[1]: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1130713/0001047469150...

Re: Tech and Banking Giants Ditch Bitcoin for Their Own Blockchain

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Something about the financial industry's interest has really turned me off the blockchain and its possible implementations. What exactly? And don't you think banks will be more apt to use Bitcoin once things like the lightning network roll out (offering much greater transaction volumes)?

I think I was turned off because I envisioned a much grander future for blockchain tech than a glorified clearinghouse for big banks. Banks will never use a public network (like Bitcoin) to manage inter-bank transfers. They'll take the underlying technology and create a custom, private network where they can tweak protocols to their liking. The hard part will be for the banks to form a board to oversee the network, b…

sounds like a job for Dee Hook!

[0] http://www.fastcompany.com/27333/trillion-dollar-vision-dee-...

Re: Tech and Banking Giants Ditch Bitcoin for Their Own Blockchain

#44
post #6

Jettisoning any advantage to using the blockchain rather than a centralised database. This is the snake oil phase of cryptocurrency. Or, more charitably, the not-inhaling phase.

There are a lot of misunderstandings about blockchain technology.

One of the most common is believing that everyone who uses their own chains are not using the bitcoin Blockchain, which is usually not the case (apart from some notable examples like Ripple or Ethereum), you can use the Blockchain with marked bitcoins or other mechanisms to essentially "convert" them to other currencies in a provable way.

Another is that everything that needs to be distributed should be done in blockchains, whether there is trust between peers or not.

Re: Tech and Banking Giants Ditch Bitcoin for Their Own Blockchain

#45

For anyone who needs a (very simplified) primer on the blockchain and why it's relevant for banks: A blockchain is a ledger (piece of paper that records transactions) with perfect memory of every single transaction that has ever occurred within a certain network. This makes double spending within the network impossible as you can trace every single coin in the network back to its origin, verifying that your trading p…

How do the banks ensure that aren't outmined? One of the key components of a blockchain is that no one mines more than half that chain. If you have too many blockchains, then you split the miners between the chains and open the doors for a big player to come in and overwhelm the other miners on that chain. I suppose you could somehow implement private blockchains where only those with the private key can participate,…

They will use a private network with their own custom protocol, just reusing the idea of block chains to not require a central entity.

Re: Tech and Banking Giants Ditch Bitcoin for Their Own Blockchain

#46

For anyone who needs a (very simplified) primer on the blockchain and why it's relevant for banks: A blockchain is a ledger (piece of paper that records transactions) with perfect memory of every single transaction that has ever occurred within a certain network. This makes double spending within the network impossible as you can trace every single coin in the network back to its origin, verifying that your trading p…

How do the banks ensure that aren't outmined? One of the key components of a blockchain is that no one mines more than half that chain. If you have too many blockchains, then you split the miners between the chains and open the doors for a big player to come in and overwhelm the other miners on that chain. I suppose you could somehow implement private blockchains where only those with the private key can participate,…

I was wondering the same. What's the incentive for me to mine (verify transactions) on their blockchains?

Re: Tech and Banking Giants Ditch Bitcoin for Their Own Blockchain

#47
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do the banks ensure that aren't outmined? One of the key components of a blockchain is that no one mines more than half that chain. If you have too many blockchains, then you split the miners between the chains and open the doors for a big player to come in and overwhelm the other miners on that chain. I suppose you could somehow implement private blockchains where only those with the private key can participate,…

I was wondering the same. What's the incentive for me to mine (verify transactions) on their blockchains?

You won't have the option too and they won't have the need for you to so there is no incentive.

Re: Tech and Banking Giants Ditch Bitcoin for Their Own Blockchain

#48
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was wondering the same. What's the incentive for me to mine (verify transactions) on their blockchains?

You won't have the option too and they won't have the need for you to so there is no incentive.

How does anyone trust it then? Isn't it by default able to have them alter it then, as they win 51% of the processing power? It seems to miss all the benefit of a blockchain, or I'm missing something?

Re: Tech and Banking Giants Ditch Bitcoin for Their Own Blockchain

#49

"Ditching" Bitcoin? Wouldn't that imply that they had previously adopted Bitcoin to some meaningful extent? Bitcoin is merely proof of concept for the underlying technology. I expect that there will be many more offshoots in the future, beyond the pieces used by the existing banking system. But I won't really care about any of them, until one of them allows me to work, buy, and sell without being forced to trust any…

I don't see what advantage an offshoot would have. The current blockchain is the longest; there's no reason to ditch it.

No reasons?

The nature of the Bitcoin's SHA-256 POW means that individuals can no longer meaningfully contribute to the integrity of the chain, and this responsibility is increasingly held by fewer individuals with access to (relatively) expensive specialized ASIC machines.

The Bitcoin system has (relatively) few legit trade opportunities yet, but is well used by scammers and black marketeers.

The median person has little use for Bitcoin as it is now.

MtGOX showed that exchanges are a point of vulnerability.

Silk Road seizure showed that Bitcoin is vulnerable to rubber-hose cryptanalysis and reminded everyone it is only pseudoanonymous.

Governments have already moved to attack Bitcoin or users of Bitcoin. Mostly these are proactive attempts to defend domestic currency controls, or concerns over money laundering.

The "dust DoS" attacks have called into question whether Bitcoin can scale much larger than its current extent.

You can't use Bitcoin with Apple Pay or Google Wallet. You actually can't get an app approved for Apple's App Store if it includes the ability to send Bitcoin. Google play doesn't allow in-app purchases in Bitcoin.

There's no reason to ditch it if you have already adopted it, but there's also no particular reason to adopt it in the first place, if something better might come along within a year or two. The banks aren't buying in. I haven't either.

Re: Tech and Banking Giants Ditch Bitcoin for Their Own Blockchain

#50
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't have the option too and they won't have the need for you to so there is no incentive.

How does anyone trust it then? Isn't it by default able to have them alter it then, as they win 51% of the processing power? It seems to miss all the benefit of a blockchain, or I'm missing something?

They know all the participants and they don't use PoW. The benefits of a blockchain are known entry ordering and immutability.

It sounds like you are missing a lot by having a bitcoin centric view of the problem space.

Post reply on HN