Martin Shkreli indictment [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Martin Shkreli indictment [pdf]

#121

Post by grandalf » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 8:50 PM UTC

JayHost wrote: post #43

My first reaction to his arrest was joy and then I saw comments about him getting "beat up in jail" to put it lightly. People who say those kinds of things are no better than him. Possibly worse. The solution to dealing with people like him is to be able to separate them from society or fix the system so it can no longer be exploited so "easily". He may have hurt a lot of people but it's been through proxy as far as…

I don't think anyone is comparing the moral code of this guy compared with the moral code of the people who are outraged about him.

Like most businesspeople he probably adopts the ethos of getting away with what he can within the law, and possibly bending the law where he can get away with it. Google's offshore profit laundering system is an example of a similar approach.

I think it's a mistake to believe this guy is all that different from average in his moral behavior. Most of us never get the opportunity to price pharmaceuticals, but chances are most business owners don't simply give away the product to those who want it.

Differentiating between customers wanting and needing a product is a slippery slope.

Re: Martin Shkreli indictment [pdf]

#122

Post by Lawtonfogle » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 8:51 PM UTC

JayHost wrote: post #43

My first reaction to his arrest was joy and then I saw comments about him getting "beat up in jail" to put it lightly. People who say those kinds of things are no better than him. Possibly worse. The solution to dealing with people like him is to be able to separate them from society or fix the system so it can no longer be exploited so "easily". He may have hurt a lot of people but it's been through proxy as far as…

>I do believe Martin is a good guy on the wrong path.

In the 'even the worst guy in the world is a good guy once you look past what ever issues result in them being evil' way?

>He's just being "successful" as it was always defined to him.

There are SO many ways I could run with this.

Honestly, I think one could try to make the argument that there are no evil people, just broken ones. Is that what you are trying to say? If not, I find it hard to justify this guy as a good guy otherwise.

Re: Martin Shkreli indictment [pdf]

#123

Post by pdeuchler » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 8:51 PM UTC

foobarqux wrote: post #80

Disruptive_Dave wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, I take that as a nerdy white dude who desperately seeks attention trying to impress the hip hop heads out there (that kind of talk is extremely common in the rap game).

I don't know whether he meant that particular statement but if you watch his stream for a while it becomes clear that he is a delusional sociopath.

or, you know, an insulated, spoiled kid. but that would require empathy

Re: Martin Shkreli indictment [pdf]

#124

Post by livingparadox » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 8:52 PM UTC

For those who need it translated from legal, I found this article which helps explain it a more concise way.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-crime-shkreli-idUSKBN0...

Re: Martin Shkreli indictment [pdf]

#125

Post by pdeuchler » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 8:53 PM UTC

chipsy wrote: post #106

Disruptive_Dave wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, I take that as a nerdy white dude who desperately seeks attention trying to impress the hip hop heads out there (that kind of talk is extremely common in the rap game).

I disagree with this form of dismissal as a rule. If someone says something and then says "it was a joke", "it was a game", "I was just making a point", that doesn't cancel out the words and their impact - social atmosphere is not an intellectually pristine environment. You will change the atmosphere by yelling "fire" in a crowded theater and once it's done, there is no going back. Likewise, if we dismiss someone's s…

>>> "You will change the atmosphere by yelling "fire" in a crowded theater and once it's done, there is no going back."

>>> "Posturing language exists to make a claim to credibility. It serves a real purpose and is used in an instrumental way, for the purpose of conducting business on the terms of those who use it."

>>> "enabling their threats to be real to some degree."

>>> "There is no reason to deny him the possibility of simply being a bad human being who is in need of careful monitoring by society."

Do you realize what you're advocating here? Also, referencing "fire in a crowded theater" is usually looked upon as a canary for those who don't know what they're talking about in regards to free speech

Re: Martin Shkreli indictment [pdf]

#126

Post by ossreality » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 8:56 PM UTC

pdeuchler wrote: post #125

chipsy wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with this form of dismissal as a rule. If someone says something and then says "it was a joke", "it was a game", "I was just making a point", that doesn't cancel out the words and their impact - social atmosphere is not an intellectually pristine environment. You will change the atmosphere by yelling "fire" in a crowded theater and once it's done, there is no going back. Likewise, if we dismiss someone's s…

>>> "You will change the atmosphere by yelling "fire" in a crowded theater and once it's done, there is no going back." >>> "Posturing language exists to make a claim to credibility. It serves a real purpose and is used in an instrumental way, for the purpose of conducting business on the terms of those who use it." >>> "enabling their threats to be real to some degree." >>> "There is no reason to deny him the possib…

I sure don't? Mind not being cryptic?

Are we really going to have this stupid god damn conversation again? Threatening speech is not protected. Acting like a fucking jackass might be protected speech but it doesn't protect you from the forum of public opinion.

Ironically, pretty much everytime I see someone whining about free speech, they're talking about it non-governmental contexts... the ultimate irony of you telling others they don't know what they're talking about.

If you're a jerk to people and then backpeddle with "it's a joke", you're still a jerk, and you're still not welcome in any space I curate.

edit: And now elsewhere you're calling people unempathic for being upset with him. Dude, he might have been raised by narcissists but at some point you have to take responsibility for how you act.

He's repeatedly done very unstable, aggressive things. If he's not actually slightly sociopathic, he's a huge asshole and I literally can not for the life of me imagine why you'd be vaguely defending him.

Re: Martin Shkreli indictment [pdf]

#127

Post by whyenot » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 8:59 PM UTC

sakopov wrote: post #118

Am I the only one who thinks that this guy needs psychiatric attention, not jail? Every time i saw an interview conducted with this man he seemed like a complete psychopath.

Prison is where many (most?) psychiatric patents get "treatment" these days.

Re: Martin Shkreli indictment [pdf]

#128

Post by throwawaymaroon » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 8:59 PM UTC

danso wrote: post #29

Seriously disappointing news. Shkreli seemed like such an obvious troll in how he defended his price gouging by saying that a CEO's role is to maximize profit for the benefit of shareholders...and yet did so in such an unnecessarily obnoxious way that if he truly were the uber-capitalist, he would know that bragging and drawing attention to what an asshole you are does not achieve the true capitalist goal. I would've…

I think this betrays a certain faith in capitalism ("true" capitalism) on your part, as if selfish interest is necessarily sophisticated.

Re: Martin Shkreli indictment [pdf]

#129

Post by micwawa » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 9:01 PM UTC

When dealing with sociopaths, you have think of them like diseases and not even begin to attempt to relate to them in human terms. Saying "I'm glad that Skreli went to jail" should be stated with the the same joy or sense of justice as saying "I'm glad Ebola was contained." Saying something like "I hope Ebola learned their lesson, hahaha" shows that you don't understand Ebola. There's a lot of wealthy sociopaths out there. I hope this story calls attention to this and raises a bit of "sociopathic awareness"

Re: Martin Shkreli indictment [pdf]

#130

Post by Nelson69 » Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 9:03 PM UTC

oxide wrote: post #36

pc86 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No sense giving the defense any more reasons for appeal. Whether the guy is a scumbag or not, whether he has a lot of money or not, the criminal justice system should not be imposing undue burden or punishment based on public opinion regarding a matter that isn't even relevant to the case. I won't lose any sleep when this guy goes to prison for a long time, but no sense doing nonsense that will only mildly inconvenie…

any chance he doesn't end up in prison, though? I might be naive, but I'm under the impression that the book doesn't get thrown at white-collar criminals in the US. what are the odds he just ends up on probation?

It depends on the federal prosecutor, convicting high profile criminals is one of the ways they parlay that in to politics.

It's largely a matter of whether the case is winnable. Then if he acts anything like his public persona suggests, I can't see too many prosecutors going easy on him, if he's abrasive or something? It's entirely possible they give him the Schwartz treatment.