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The Insults of Age

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Re: The Insults of Age

#11

Post by bambax »

RyanMcGreal wrote: post #5
manmal wrote: post #3

Interesting story! To me it seems Ms Garner is ok with growing old and more fragile, but does not accept being viewed as inferior or respect-unworthy. Good for her! I wish more elderly people would decouple their loss of youth from their self regard.

> I wish more elderly people would decouple their loss of youth from their self regard. I think Garner's point is that we live in a society in which other people's regard for your worth is a function of your age.

The society where "elders" were regarded as wells of wisdom probably never existed. In every society but our own, women after 40 were considered very old.

Helen Garner, born Nov. 1942, is 73 years old. She appears to be really full of herself, which is maybe how old people are.

She should be happy to be alive instead of complaining about young people being young.

Re: The Insults of Age

#12

Post by WalterSear »

epimetheus wrote: post #6
RyanMcGreal wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish more elderly people would decouple their loss of youth from their self regard. I think Garner's point is that we live in a society in which other people's regard for your worth is a function of your age.

And yet, hypocritically, she negatively judges the youth as such.

Furthermore, she considers a innocent question from a child as a insult to her age and gender.

Re: The Insults of Age

#13

Post by onesixtythree »

doki_pen wrote: post #8

It's interesting that I've had the complete opposite experience as a white man. The older I get the more respect I get in public, for no apparent reason. The painting example was so apt. No one would dare step between me and a painting. It's a very odd thing, as I don't feel like I deserve any more respect than I did 20 years ago.

Age is a weird prejudice because it depends so much on environment. In most companies, you're viewed negatively before age 30: you're expected to work the worst hours because the assumption is that you have nothing "better" to do and would just be out drinking. In Silicon Valley, you're viewed negatively after 30. Some doors close and others open.

I do find, strangely, that I'm way more attractive to women now that I'm older, even though my looks have (objectively) declined. Adolescent men are unwanted, invisible, and generally disliked by society unless they're in the top 5% for social skills; things get better at 25 and a lot better after 30... although I'm still glad that I married young because I'd imagine that the dating pool shrinks considerably.

Re: The Insults of Age

#14

Post by [deleted] »

doki_pen wrote: post #8

It's interesting that I've had the complete opposite experience as a white man. The older I get the more respect I get in public, for no apparent reason. The painting example was so apt. No one would dare step between me and a painting. It's a very odd thing, as I don't feel like I deserve any more respect than I did 20 years ago.

[deleted]

Re: The Insults of Age

#15

Post by beachstartup »

onesixtythree wrote: post #13
doki_pen wrote: post #8

It's interesting that I've had the complete opposite experience as a white man. The older I get the more respect I get in public, for no apparent reason. The painting example was so apt. No one would dare step between me and a painting. It's a very odd thing, as I don't feel like I deserve any more respect than I did 20 years ago.

Age is a weird prejudice because it depends so much on environment. In most companies, you're viewed negatively before age 30: you're expected to work the worst hours because the assumption is that you have nothing "better" to do and would just be out drinking. In Silicon Valley, you're viewed negatively after 30. Some doors close and others open. I do find, strangely, that I'm way more attractive to women now that I…

> although I'm still glad that I married young because I'd imagine that the dating pool shrinks considerably.

it actually doesn't, in fact it grows continuously, but you'll just be shamed by older women and married men for dating younger women.

Re: The Insults of Age

#16

Post by eloisant »

Older people used to be considered wiser and respected. The baby-boomer generation basically invented ageism when they were young in the 70's, it's ironic to see it bite them back now.

Re: The Insults of Age

#17

Post by onesixtythree »

bambax wrote: post #11
RyanMcGreal wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish more elderly people would decouple their loss of youth from their self regard. I think Garner's point is that we live in a society in which other people's regard for your worth is a function of your age.

The society where "elders" were regarded as wells of wisdom probably never existed. In every society but our own, women after 40 were considered very old. Helen Garner, born Nov. 1942, is 73 years old. She appears to be really full of herself, which is maybe how old people are. She should be happy to be alive instead of complaining about young people being young.

The society where "elders" were regarded as wells of wisdom probably never existed.

Not true. Traditional Asian societies take the other extreme and venerate age (probably more than they should, but that's another topic). Hence, you have 90-year-old patriarchs calling shots in family businesses, and middle-aged men whose parents were still alive were traditionally considered still adolescent. Also, not taking care of your parents is a jailable crime in China.

In every society but our own, women after 40 were considered very old.

I'm a man under 40, so this may not be my fight, but... Fuck. That. Shit. While it is true that middle-aged, unmarried women were once considered undesirable and suspect, that was in societies in which urinating at the dinner table was socially acceptable, childbirth meant a 1-in-25 chance of dying, indoor plumbing didn't exist, and tuberculosis was a death sentence.

She should be happy to be alive instead of complaining about young people being young.

She's not complaining about young people being young. She's complaining about people (often with no reference to their age) being stupid. Not all young people are stupid.

Re: The Insults of Age

#18

Post by gohrt »

manmal wrote: post #3

Interesting story! To me it seems Ms Garner is ok with growing old and more fragile, but does not accept being viewed as inferior or respect-unworthy. Good for her! I wish more elderly people would decouple their loss of youth from their self regard.

What I saw in the article is that Ms Garner doesn't care much for respect, she just doesn't want to be looked at as weak because she is old are a woman. Her stories demonstrate consistent pride in the contempt with which she treats the people around her.

Re: The Insults of Age

#19

Post by gohrt »

onesixtythree wrote: post #17
bambax wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The society where "elders" were regarded as wells of wisdom probably never existed. In every society but our own, women after 40 were considered very old. Helen Garner, born Nov. 1942, is 73 years old. She appears to be really full of herself, which is maybe how old people are. She should be happy to be alive instead of complaining about young people being young.

The society where "elders" were regarded as wells of wisdom probably never existed. Not true. Traditional Asian societies take the other extreme and venerate age (probably more than they should, but that's another topic). Hence, you have 90-year-old patriarchs calling shots in family businesses, and middle-aged men whose parents were still alive were traditionally considered still adolescent. Also, not taking care of…

> patriarchs

>> women after 40

> not taking care of your parents is a jailable crime in China.

Nothing about "wisdom" in there.

Re: The Insults of Age

#20

Post by venomsnake »

eloisant wrote: post #16

Older people used to be considered wiser and respected. The baby-boomer generation basically invented ageism when they were young in the 70's, it's ironic to see it bite them back now.

It is about how you get old. Keep in shape and your brain sharp and you will be fine.
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