I'm always skeptical about stuff like this. Sandberg's springboard into her career was two-fold: working at McKinsey after HBS, and working under Larry Summers, who was her thesis advisor at Harvard UG. She went to Google as a VP after her stint in government. There is a huge "getting your foot in the door" advantage to that credential. I can totally believe she didn't use much of what she learned at HBS in what she…
Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech
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Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech
#72I'm a developer at a financial services company. I was content to be a developer and let the "business" folks define our stories and I'd just code them. I never understood the application I was building on a deep level--it was always superficial. A friend convinced me to take a few MBA classes at a local university. The first class was accounting. It opened my eyes to understanding what our product and business owner…
I would be interested to hear from you, and anybody else with similar experience, what were some of the most valuable courses you took. That is, for someone with no interest in pursuing an MBA but with the opportunity to take a course or two, what are the must-haves?
Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would be interested to hear from you, and anybody else with similar experience, what were some of the most valuable courses you took. That is, for someone with no interest in pursuing an MBA but with the opportunity to take a course or two, what are the must-haves?
That's going to be heavily weighted based on your personal background and the quality of the specific class.
> That's going to be heavily weighted based on your personal background
Could you elaborate?
Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech
#74Aside from the value of the degree itself, can anyone attest to the usefulness of any particular knowledge gained from doing an MBA, particularly around running small companies and startups? If so, any recommendations for resources, books etc? This whole issue (usefulness of MBA in tech management) sounds very similar to the usefulness of CS degree in development issue. We can talk all day about the effect the CS deg…
Carrying the analogy further, the value of getting a CS degree is relative to how you learn. If you're good at learning a lot of stuff in a classroom (as I was in my college majors, math and physics), then getting a degree makes sense. If you're good at learning stuff at home (as I was with computer programming), then getting a degree might be less useful. A person could adopt the strategy of using college for learni…
These are things you can figure out, and discipline yourself into, but on your own time and with a fair probability you won't do a great job, when self-learning. With a degree much of that work is outsourced to specialists who have a lot more context and ability to iterate on experience, and that gives you a much smoother path to just focusing on your main job - learning.
So, a good compromise, and the reason I ask this question, is to get recommendations on what to learn, then decide myself how I will do it and on what schedule, etc.
Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech
#75I have to disagree with this claim. Leverage matters immensely. The truth about "merit" is that no one knows how to assess it, so people judge based on external leverage and status, and having an MBA from a top-5 school gives a person a huge advantage. If you're a walk-on for a $250,000-per-year sinecure, then they're going to give you a real tech job, and not some lowly code-the-stories position.
>>and having an MBA from a top-5 school gives a person a huge advantage. Certainly. There's a saying that having an MBA from Harvard will guarantee you at least an interview anywhere in the world. The problem is that the vast majority of MBAs did not get their degree from Harvard, or even the other top 4 schools. They got their MBAs from regional universities or no-name business departments.
All of that said, the networking opportunities drop off rapidly, even from Harvard to Stanford or Stanford to Wharton, much less out of the top 5. The education is the same, and the academic quality of the students is probably better at non-top schools, but you're not meeting people who are so loaded and connected that they'll hand out sinecures and venture funding (which are two forms of the same thing, but that's another discussion) to their drinking buddies.
Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech
#76Aside from the value of the degree itself, can anyone attest to the usefulness of any particular knowledge gained from doing an MBA, particularly around running small companies and startups? If so, any recommendations for resources, books etc? This whole issue (usefulness of MBA in tech management) sounds very similar to the usefulness of CS degree in development issue. We can talk all day about the effect the CS deg…
I've found that different people find different things valuable in their MBA. We had an entrepreneurship prof who was also an investor who took us yoking from term sheets to buy outs. Found that super valuable, but yes, no doubt could read up more on this online as well. Same for finance, which was a topic that I didn't know that well before. From a course perspective also got more out of strategy than I expected, but that seems to be very dependent on the prof teaching. (Read 'profit or growth' by bala if you want a book, but more suited for large corporates)
Above all though, i think you get more out of the MBA in personal development (leadership in group work, dealing with pressure, being confident with new material, etc.) and network (after 1-2 years you are at least well connected to a group of people that have high business ambitions, plus alumni). In that sense it's difficult to replace the full MBA experience with a set of MOOCs.
Finally, I've always found it powerful if someone in a room full of technical people knows more about business than any other tech guy in that room (or vice versa, being the only biz guy who understands tech or can program in a room full of biz guys). The MBA is one way for technical people to make that step.
realizing that I didn't answer the question... Here are some things I think would also be interesting, regardless of the paper for more tech oriented people:
- time value of money (finance)
- basics of accounting (p&l vs cash flow, you'd be amazed how many startups die by running out of cash even though their p&l is positive)
- understanding competitive advantage & successful market entry (strategy)
- basic operations: the difference between efficient and market responsive supply chains (right supply chain for right product, i.e. Don't typically airfreight toilet paper); and the newsfeed or model if you make real products
- lots around marketing (pricing, channels, etc.)
- some stuff on more executive lvl management (do executives have most impact by the decisions they make themselves, or by the premises they set for others in the organization within which they make decisions? If the latter, how do you work best as an exec?)
- negotiation 101: there are some great HBS cases available online, it's even fun as a Friday afternoon to negotiate between people and see what works best.
- governance and boards
- basics of investing, leveraged buyouts, private equity/VC
Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech
#77Taking two years out of your life to study business full-time will improve your business judgement. That this is controversial always surprised me.
I have a parent who teaches at a top-5 business school. A few years ago, I had the opportunity to travel to Japan on a trip where my parent acted as a faculty chaperone and was able to attend some of the meetings with Japanese business leaders. One of the trips was to a 400+ year-old sake brewer. After the tour of the brewery, there was a Q & A period with the president of the company. The business school students asked him question after question about expansion, new product lines, finding new markets, advertising campaigns...everything they could think about to achieve growth. His answer was always basically the same and to the effect of, "I'm happy with the current situation. I make a profit making the best sake in the world, just as my ancestors have made it for the past 400 years. I provide a comfortable life for my family and the families of the people who work for me. Why would I want to change?"
It was a profound experience for me to watch him try to explain what should be a completely reasonable position to a group of people that have had the ideal of growth beyond all else drilled into their head so thoroughly that they simply couldn't understand contentment with the status quo. On the ride home, the whole group was complaining about why they'd even wasted their time talking to someone so ignorant. Comments ranged from, "He'll be out of business in 10 years" to "At least we got to drink sake."
I worry that putting MBAs in charge of businesses puts a skewed view on risk and desired outcomes. Each and every one of their suggestions could have backfired immensely and most would have required taking on considerable debt. It's this way of thinking that gives people the unicorn-or-bust mentality and look down on those who try to build "lifestyle businesses" (I hate that term). The world would be a much better place with fewer unicorns and more lifestyle businesses. The hockey stick isn't necessary to be successful, at yet it seems to be all that MBAs understand.
Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's going to be heavily weighted based on your personal background and the quality of the specific class.
Thanks for your reply. > That's going to be heavily weighted based on your personal background Could you elaborate?
It's like an extreme version of the 80:20 rule. You can get some basic c functions to compile in a few hours, but seeing though the winner of an obfuscated c contest on your own might take years.
Just remember, your not a specialist and becoming one takes a lot more effort than a few MBA classes.
Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you're saying that "No true MBA graduate is useless".
Why are people on HN so obsessed with trying to find argument fallacies in comments? No, I am not saying that. The words "true MBA" have the same amount of content to them as "a true kitchen sink": zero. I say that people buy education for different reasons. Some get an MBA because they want to flash their CVs, have a cushy job, and avoid the strains of being original. Others get an MBA because they need the skills,…
it's just what happens when you get a bunch of intelligent pedants in a 'room' together.
Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you're saying that "No true MBA graduate is useless".
Why are people on HN so obsessed with trying to find argument fallacies in comments? No, I am not saying that. The words "true MBA" have the same amount of content to them as "a true kitchen sink": zero. I say that people buy education for different reasons. Some get an MBA because they want to flash their CVs, have a cushy job, and avoid the strains of being original. Others get an MBA because they need the skills,…
"Different people get an education for different reasons" is a nice statement, and I would even agree that it's true. But nothing follows from that. It's not a statement that one can draw conclusions from.
In your original statement you're saying "MBAs are useless now, but it's because of HR, and it sucks that MBAs are useless but it didn't always use to be like that". Now you're saying "no, they aren't useless, in fact they're better than engineers".
Oh, how easy it is to claim a strong point when you're unconstrained by the truth.