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ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

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Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#151

Post by restalis »

kayamon wrote: post #106
orionblastar wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ReactOS runs best in a virtual machine. Running it on bare iron is risky. Driver support is limited and they are still working on it. For example they just added Wifi support and printing support. I donated to their Indiegogo campaign to get the community edition developed, that campaign allowed them to hire developers to get to the 0.40 mile stone.

Isn't one of the goals behind ReactOS that you can "simply" use the large existing base of Windows drivers on it?

That's the aim, but the circle of developers working on it is not that wide and even at the level of Windows 2003 (the project's compatibility aim) there already was a pretty large surface of binary compatibility to be covered. Many drivers already work, but many do not yet (because hey, it's not even in beta stage yet).

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#152

Post by coldtea »

sho_hn wrote: post #88
coldtea wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common is an exaggeration. You mentioned a handful of examples, most of which are either programmer/geek intended or niche (the LightScribe control panel? German's official tax app? language course CD apps? Virtualbox? scientific citation managers, etc?)... The fact is a user can go for years without ever using one. And in the tens of millions of apps available for Windows, QT based ones make for less than 1/1000...

I don't really know why you seem to have an axe to grind here. My original assertion was that most Windows PCs used by regular consumers have copies of Qt on them, and I stand by that. How that happens is not hard to see across the examples I gave: Widely deployed hardware support software, widely used content client software, auxiliary roles in widely used entertainment software, software required by law to use by a…

>I don't really know why you seem to have an axe to grind here.

Not sure about the "axe to grind" thing -- I didn't call any names, and it kind of calls for people to see any kind of reply from me as further "aggression". I merely stated my opinion based on what I've seen 15+ years in IT (including using QT to write some KDE API based apps).

I believe I have a quite good understanding on where QT stands in the "commercial apps" landscape, and common isn't the word I'd use for it. Skype would be the biggest success story, if they still use it, and it looks quite different from the regular QT/Windows look (which is what we were discussing).

So, just by Skype alone sure, you'll find "most Windows PCs used by regular consumers have [a copy] of Qt on them", but that's not enough to call it common in my book. Most regular PC also have had Java applet SDK and even JREs, and one could cite a few apps using it, but few would call Swing "popular" in the desktop space.

As for Qt being a "800k developer ecosystem", a lot of them work on internal enterprise tools, automation software and stuff like that, which has been a traditional market for TrollTech and QT in past decades. Then there's always KDE of course too.

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#153

Post by nailer »

pjc50 wrote: post #133
pjmlp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you ignore Powershell. You can orchestrate scripts in FP style, similar to the REPLs in Xerox PARC workstations, access any .NET, DLL or COM API as if it was part of Powershell, manipulate data without parsing it all the time, interact with running applications via Windows APIs....

I've tried to adopt powershell, and here are the obstacles I encountered: 1) You can't write or run scripts "out of the box", you need to do a security incantation first. A oneoff hurdle, but right at the start of the learning curve. 2) Perhaps because of (1), it's not very dogfooded: on a UNIX system, there are lots of already-existing shell scripts sitting around as parts of the OS. PS is not so rich in examples. 3…

You can't run scripts out of the box on nix either: you either need to manually mark the script as executable or invoke the interpreter and pass it as a parameter.

Not saying that's a bad thing, just that we (as Unix folks) do things intuitively that we forgot we once not intuitive.

Totally agreed on 2 though 5 though.

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#154

Post by restalis »

beagle3 wrote: post #61
wolf550e wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you want to run vendor provided Windows-only binary drives for some weird hardware?

Those 0.1% of the users are likely going to have to buy Windows. After 17 years of development, ReactOS is not really usable with mainstream hardware, so it is unlikely to be a solution for weird hardware.

"it is unlikely to be a solution for weird hardware"

But it's there for the taking and tweaking! It's the same as you solve your own problems in the *nix world, but it's for the cases where you really don't have any other solution but but to work with the hardware vendor's black-box provided driver. BTW, don't expect that buying Windows will solve your problems (because Microsoft seems to have acquired a taste for moving fast and breaking things lately).

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#155

Post by noselasd »

pjc50 wrote: post #133
pjmlp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you ignore Powershell. You can orchestrate scripts in FP style, similar to the REPLs in Xerox PARC workstations, access any .NET, DLL or COM API as if it was part of Powershell, manipulate data without parsing it all the time, interact with running applications via Windows APIs....

I've tried to adopt powershell, and here are the obstacles I encountered: 1) You can't write or run scripts "out of the box", you need to do a security incantation first. A oneoff hurdle, but right at the start of the learning curve. 2) Perhaps because of (1), it's not very dogfooded: on a UNIX system, there are lots of already-existing shell scripts sitting around as parts of the OS. PS is not so rich in examples. 3…

What comes to mind by 4), is "tee", which powershell also has - but that's perhaps not what you want/mean ?

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#156

Post by noselasd »

throwaway7767 wrote: post #127
rasz_pl wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft already kinda went open source, unintentionally :) http://www.opennt.net/ interesting thread documenting start of OpenNT project http://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=33250 from broken code base that would not compile to booting ~Windows 2003 compiled from source.

Interesting, I didn't know about OpenNT. Do you happen to know why they based it on the leaded NT4 source instead of the leaked win2k one?

The leaked win2k was very incomplete.

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#157

Post by sho_hn »

coldtea wrote: post #152
sho_hn wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really know why you seem to have an axe to grind here. My original assertion was that most Windows PCs used by regular consumers have copies of Qt on them, and I stand by that. How that happens is not hard to see across the examples I gave: Widely deployed hardware support software, widely used content client software, auxiliary roles in widely used entertainment software, software required by law to use by a…

> I don't really know why you seem to have an axe to grind here. Not sure about the "axe to grind" thing -- I didn't call any names, and it kind of calls for people to see any kind of reply from me as further "aggression". I merely stated my opinion based on what I've seen 15+ years in IT (including using QT to write some KDE API based apps). I believe I have a quite good understanding on where QT stands in the "comm…

> As for Qt being a "800k developer ecosystem", a lot of them work on internal enterprise tools, automation software and stuff like that

Many of which run on Windows, FWIW.

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#158

Post by restalis »

suprjami wrote: post #8
ant6n wrote: post #4

At this point, I wonder whether it wouldn't be easier to bundle linux and wine together.

I've thought this as well. I agree there's value in aiming too-high, but the amount of effort which has gone into ReactOS would have served Wine really well.

"the amount of effort which has gone into ReactOS would have served Wine really well"

That may be partly true. Partly, because you falsely assume that anyone contributing to ReactOS would contribute to Wine. These cover common technical ground (of Windows application binary support), but from different ideological prospectives.

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#159

Post by qubex »

fsloth wrote: post #92
SwellJoe wrote: post #31

I've always been strangely fascinated by this project. I don't understand it. I appreciate the technical skill involved, and the amount of effort expended. But, I can't imagine working on it. From my perspective, Windows is an inferior system to any UNIX-based system on almost every front. It has a very strong application ecosystem, but technically it's unpleasant to work on (for me). So, given that, if there's somet…

"From my perspective, Windows is an inferior system to any UNIX-based system on almost every front. It has a very strong application ecosystem, but technically it's unpleasant to work on" I suppose this depends on the workflow. Powershell is just as powerfull for me as bash (I can't help to learn the syntax for either of them - I just google the expression for iterating a command over files and whatnot) I start appli…

You're confusing the OS with the UI. This is sadly commonplace.

Re: ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate

#160

Post by restalis »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #11

An OEM Windows 7 disc is under $50 at Amazon now (down from $80 which is what I paid a couple of months ago). At a certain point, why not just buy the real thing and not have to fuss so much about compatibility? Almost every recent Mac can bootcamp Windows now, and Linux can also dual-boot, or else maybe install it to VirtualBox. That's also why I've stopped updating my Crossover for $40 every year or two. Basic lapt…

Windows 10 was offered for free (as upgrade) and there was a good reason why that cookie was free! I don't want it for the same reasons.
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