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Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

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Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#31

Post by x1024 »

jevgeni wrote: post #28
swingbridge wrote: post #22

Honestly the MBA has always mostly been an advanced degree for people who didn't get an advanced degree in a real subject. Lets people tick the 'grad school' box. The real world value has always been quite questionable and yes I'd agree here that in tech it's mostly useless, if not actually even a disadvantage. For what's it's worth nearly all the excellent executives I've met over the years didn't have an MBA and ne…

Well, I have had the opposite experience, but then again I'm not in tech. Thing is, the useless MBA image comes from the indiscriminate and formalistic practices of HR recruiters, who would equate an "MBA" with "value". So the incentives have changed from "I want to bring my company forward" to "I want a cushy job with little actual work". And it is true, that traditional business education has now suffered from this…

So you're saying that "No true MBA graduate is useless".

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#32

Post by djhn »

samsolomon wrote: post #14
harryf wrote: post #11

Once could make the argument that having an MBA is actually a hinderance in tech...

I don't know that more education is necessarily a bad thing. For a startup it's the opportunity cost of someone who has spent several years in an MBA program that makes that candidate unattractive.

You are implying that startups value experience, and more so when gained early in one's career - so they would be discounting knowledge based on how late in one's life it's gained.

I reckon this comes form the American/British style tradition of going straight to college, graduating at 22 and then starting a career. In Europe styding/working isn't a mutually exclusive, binary option. It's not uncommon to graduate at 25 or even 30, whether that's because of mandatory military service, self-funding study concurrently with studying, finding interesting opportunities while at university, pursuing arts/theatre/sport, etc.

In fact, I've never disclosed my age to employers whether during or after hiring. Since it can't be easily deducted from graduation years, I've had people estimate anything from 19-40 in the past few years.

If you are comparing two potential hires, the age should be irrelevant. Experience, skill and future value (including fit and other subjective aspects) vs. their price (salary) is pretty much the only relevant consideration.

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#33

Post by jevgeni »

x1024 wrote: post #31
jevgeni wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I have had the opposite experience, but then again I'm not in tech. Thing is, the useless MBA image comes from the indiscriminate and formalistic practices of HR recruiters, who would equate an "MBA" with "value". So the incentives have changed from "I want to bring my company forward" to "I want a cushy job with little actual work". And it is true, that traditional business education has now suffered from this…

So you're saying that "No true MBA graduate is useless".

Why are people on HN so obsessed with trying to find argument fallacies in comments?

No, I am not saying that. The words "true MBA" have the same amount of content to them as "a true kitchen sink": zero.

I say that people buy education for different reasons. Some get an MBA because they want to flash their CVs, have a cushy job, and avoid the strains of being original. Others get an MBA because they need the skills, the language, the professional network, and the confidence, that such degrees (at least from good universities) bring for a specific goal they want to accomplish, be that within an already established business or not.

Saying that those kind of mind sets (or only one of those mind sets) is strictly particular to a group of people, which made a certain academic choice is wrong.

In my professional experience, for example, I've met a lot more engineers who were absolutely useless from a business perspective, than I've met useless MBAs. Of course, this is because I've met way more engineers than MBAs.

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#34

Post by c0achmcguirk »

I'm a developer at a financial services company. I was content to be a developer and let the "business" folks define our stories and I'd just code them. I never understood the application I was building on a deep level--it was always superficial.

A friend convinced me to take a few MBA classes at a local university. The first class was accounting. It opened my eyes to understanding what our product and business owners were saying on my projects at work. Now I could understand the "why" behind the screens I was building! I asked questions that made them re-think their screen mockups. Since then I've graduated and taken classes in Finance, Leadership, Economics, and my favorite: Strategy.

I use more knowledge from my MBA in my coding career than the stuff I learned in my undergrad in Computer Engineering.

In my experience, an MBA doesn't make me a better "coder." But it has given me confidence and competence in my interactions with customers and the leadership team. I'm very glad I took the time and effort to pursue my MBA.

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#35

Post by Fede_V »

swingbridge wrote: post #22

Honestly the MBA has always mostly been an advanced degree for people who didn't get an advanced degree in a real subject. Lets people tick the 'grad school' box. The real world value has always been quite questionable and yes I'd agree here that in tech it's mostly useless, if not actually even a disadvantage. For what's it's worth nearly all the excellent executives I've met over the years didn't have an MBA and ne…

My experience is that the entire value of an MBA is in the network of people you meet through business school.

I asked a friend who had a technical degree from an excellent university, and later got an MBA what useful skills he learned, and he flat out said that he only got it for signaling purposes. As far as new ideas/notions, it was basically absolutely nothing.

A quick glance at any publication on 'managerial studies' will confirm the total vacuity of the field. The average published article is a 'just so' story backed up by a dramatically statistically underpowered study. Managerial science makes social psychology look like quantum physics.

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#36

Post by jevgeni »

OJFord wrote: post #27
jevgeni wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, on the other hand, there are a lot of people who haven't paid that opportunity cost, but they aren't the COO of Facebook...

Yes, but there is only one COO of Facebook, so let's not make any statistical conclusions.

But are statistical conclusions really necessary? Or the only conclusions that matter?

I look at it from a market perspective: she had to compete with a lot of people for that position. If an MBA was a disadvantage, would she win that position?

Of course, there are many factors for why she got her position. But I doubt that she strictly speaking knows which of them contributed and which of them didn't.

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#37

Post by swingbridge »

n3on_net wrote: post #3

I wonder if she would still become COO of Facebook without Harvard MBA and all the oportunities resulted from it. MBA is probably really not necessary, but if you have the oportunity to do one on a top school, it may open some doors and expand your network. At least it has no negative effects (if you can efford it). Especially if you have technical background and want to move to management position. It simply diversi…

The issue with pointing to things like "the Harvard MBA" is that people who are selected into top tier programs are likely to have done just fine on their own anyway... so it's really hard to say that the MBA is why she was successful. I think she was successful because of qualities she already had, not something she learned in business school.

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#38

Post by cheald »

swingbridge wrote: post #37
n3on_net wrote: post #3

I wonder if she would still become COO of Facebook without Harvard MBA and all the oportunities resulted from it. MBA is probably really not necessary, but if you have the oportunity to do one on a top school, it may open some doors and expand your network. At least it has no negative effects (if you can efford it). Especially if you have technical background and want to move to management position. It simply diversi…

The issue with pointing to things like "the Harvard MBA" is that people who are selected into top tier programs are likely to have done just fine on their own anyway... so it's really hard to say that the MBA is why she was successful. I think she was successful because of qualities she already had, not something she learned in business school.

I think the implication may have been that the "Harvard MBA" credentials - not necessarily training - may have been instrumental in her career path. Degrees are filtering mechanisms, and while it may be true that an MBA isn't needed to succeed once you're in the door, it may be harder to get your foot in there in the first place without them.

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#39

Post by kabouseng »

jor-el wrote: post #16
kabouseng wrote: post #5

>> "Sandberg suggested a career in tech might not even be necessary to catch Facebook’s attention. “We don't look for a specific background or skill-set when we make hiring decisions,” she wrote. “As my friend and Instagram COO Marne Levine says, we hire athletes and cross-train them.” So how does one interpret this? It sounds like she doesn't really have a good idea as to what makes a great employee, and falls back…

Can you suggest some books? I would be interested to read them.

Well I don't have a MBA :D, but I do have a masters degree of a similar orientation (Masters in engineering management). I can only recommend the ones I have read and found of value:

[1] Crossing the chasm (Marketing related)

[2] Peopleware (HR related)

[3] How to win friends and influence people (HR related)

[4] The Goal (Business related)

[5] Critical chain (Project management related)

[6] Who moved my cheese (Change management related)

and any of the lean / agile businessy books for ex.

[7] The lean startup

These might not be viewed as traditional MBA material, but my course featured some of these along with more traditional academic books on subjects like financial management, people management, operations etc. I can provide these textbooks to you as well if you like.

*Amazon links just for convenience, no affiliation.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-3rd-Disruptive-Mainstre...

[2] http://www.amazon.com/Peopleware-Productive-Projects-Teams-3...

[3] http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/06...

[4] http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0884271951?keywords=eli%20g...

[5] http://www.amazon.com/Critical-Chain-Eliyahu-M-Goldratt/dp/0...

[6] http://www.amazon.com/Who-Moved-My-Cheese-Amazing/dp/0399144...

[7] http://www.amazon.com/Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous-...

Re: Sheryl Sandberg Says an MBA Doesn't Matter in Tech

#40

Post by jacquesm »

c0achmcguirk wrote: post #34

I'm a developer at a financial services company. I was content to be a developer and let the "business" folks define our stories and I'd just code them. I never understood the application I was building on a deep level--it was always superficial. A friend convinced me to take a few MBA classes at a local university. The first class was accounting. It opened my eyes to understanding what our product and business owner…

The real value creation happens on the cross roads between different fields. You now have two of these at your disposal. Don't stop, add another one!
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