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I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

joseduarte.com

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Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did any school deny him on that basis? From what I read, there is no evidence.

If they brought it up in an interview at all, that means that it was part of their decision. The way he portraits the line of questioning, his having quite narrowly dissenting opinions (that is to say, any own opinions at all) was a dealbreaker.

If they brought it up in an interview at all, that means that it was part of their decision.

Not necessarily. It could be something they thought might lead somewhere interesting ("Do you know about $foo? Cool, so what's your opinion on this detail?"; the first question is only useful to know if you can ask the second questions). It could be stalling for time while they try to come up with something useful to ask. It could be following up on some earlier comment, according to the rules of polite small talk.

Those last two aren't something a skilled interviewer would do, but then I don't think most interviewers are skilled. They also don't fit with the original post, but the first one might.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#272
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting perspective. If that's the current common view, then in a way I feel really outdated. I clearly haven't been paying attention and honestly haven't been aware that 'down-voting' has changed in meaning over the past 10 years or so. Thanks for pointing that out. It's good to learn new things. Although I feel kind of aged at the moment, it also makes me feel good knowing that I can now suppress people much mo…

I'm not sure if it's the majority view, but it's certainly held by a decent percentage of people. I think the change happened gradually; people saw what happened as the result of espousing populist "everyone has a voice and a downvote is only for trolling" policies, on sites like Slashdot and Digg and early pre-subreddits Reddit: a reversion-to-the-societal-mean of cat pictures and other "shallow content", and the co…

Reddit's reddiquette advises users to use the downvote arrow only to indicate that a post is not constructive or off-topic. Further, users are told that it's best not to downvote just because they disagree with something.

The vast overwhelming majority of users on that site use downvotes to indicate disagreement, or dislike. That interpretation of downvoting has, like it or not, spread throughout the internet. Here? Yes, probably even here.

>The first wave of forums were built from the ideas of Usenet, IRC, and ISP-hosted chatrooms: open-access "places" that served as Schelling points for anyone interested in a topic. There was no real possibility for moderation, and the sheer scale of the problem (the possibility of a 10000:1 user-to-moderator ratio) made "community-building" impossible.

It's quite possible to create a community in an IRC channel. I was part of several quite vibrant communities in various IRC channels in the mid to late 1990s. It's also possible to moderate IRC channels. You can be kicked out of a channel for a period of time, banned from channels, or even entire networks. Operators in individual channels can even choose to grant "voice" to some people and then set a channel mode (+m, for moderated) so that only people with voice can even speak in the channel.

>One more interesting aspect of the newer Internet is that, when engaged in these group-forums, people naturally lean toward developing "faces": different presentations of aspects of themselves, tuned to the interests and values of the group.

Sociologists have long studied how people present different aspects of themselves to different groups depending on the norms of those groups. I would not call that a feature unique to the "newer" Internet, but the newer internet does allow for greater separation of whatever parts of your personality you feel like expressing.

I miss the old culture of the Internet because it was easier for me to find people who shared my interests but had viewpoints different enough from my own that it was possible to have very interesting conversations. Your definition of community sounds, quite frankly, rather boring to me. I fall solidly in the camp of "nothing interesting is happening without a little conflict". What has been lost on this "newer" Internet is the ability to have an ideological conflict remain purely ideological. There is a greater tendency for online conflict to veer into the realm of the personal, especially in these modern communities that you prefer, because there's a shortage of ideas that are "permissible" to argue about.

My $0.02, anyway.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#273
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's amazing to me that the top-rated comment in this thread broadly generalizes both "coastal intellectuals" and "Middle America" with insulting stereotypes. It's amazing to me that you took this (what you've recognized as) hyperbole'd and obviously emotionally filled post and assumed this is how I act in daily life, a point which I didn't feel I needed to make but apparently must do so is that of course I do not…

Using hyperbole in a discussion about politics will almost always get you in trouble. To be safe from this, you basically have to talk about your political views with all the detached clinical nuance of a biologist "sacrificing" lab mice to biopsy them. (That was hyperbole too, and I fully expect to get in trouble for it.) My personal ideal for "well-done political debate" is comes from economists: they can quickly d…

Quite often on the internet, and in life, I see situations that make me think, "That guy got in trouble/got grief because he has a sense of humor and everyone around him is wilfully not getting the joke".

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#274

Uh, although 'crowded' is leading the witness, "The earth is like a crowded spaceship with limited room and resources" IS an observable fact.

Define "crowded" (how many people per acre does a typical spaceship hold? How about the earth?). Define "limited" (the spaceship analogy heavily implies it's being used in a sense other than "not infinite"). Go find out what this "renewable" stuff people keep talking about these days is.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#275
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like Bruce Jenner? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/04/27/br...

(Caitlyn. Caitlyn Jenner. Surely the definition of "transgender" couldn't have eluded you while you were making a point about her being transgender?)

Actually it did. . . I don't see the need for outrage.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#276
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if it's the majority view, but it's certainly held by a decent percentage of people. I think the change happened gradually; people saw what happened as the result of espousing populist "everyone has a voice and a downvote is only for trolling" policies, on sites like Slashdot and Digg and early pre-subreddits Reddit: a reversion-to-the-societal-mean of cat pictures and other "shallow content", and the co…

Reddit's reddiquette advises users to use the downvote arrow only to indicate that a post is not constructive or off-topic. Further, users are told that it's best not to downvote just because they disagree with something. The vast overwhelming majority of users on that site use downvotes to indicate disagreement, or dislike. That interpretation of downvoting has, like it or not, spread throughout the internet. Here?…

> It's quite possible to create a community in an IRC channel.

Sure, but it didn't used to be the norm. The usage of IRC has shifted over time, from "channel-as-place" to "channel-as-community", with many of the original "channel-as-place" IRC networks now dead or virtual ghost-towns. The big reason everyone is in a love-fest for Slack but can't quite enunciate is that it's IRC but with multiple channels for each community, which encourages people to distinguish the two concepts further.

> I would not call that a feature unique to the "newer" Internet.

I didn't mean to imply it was, but rather that the first-wave of BBSes was a unique time because there was very little of that; everyone was their full self, in all their horrible glory.

It may have helped that many Internet users up through the early 90s were nerds without enough emotional intelligence to see the point in putting up a face; and that the great number of these made it easier to drop one's own face without being judged for it.

You can still see this effect on e.g. 4chan, where it's impossible to feel "excluded" in any ongoing sense, because of the lack of persistent identity. Anyone who says that "4chan's anonymity is valuable, because it generates a lot of Original Content" means specifically that people dropping face enables for some uniquely-interesting interactions.

> What has been lost on this "newer" Internet is the ability to have an ideological conflict remain purely ideological.

This still happens—but, instead of being an automatic result of everyone just sort of airing their views in the open and colliding (and then blocking everyone annoying enough until everyone who's left has this ability), you have to actively look for a community where "keeping ideological arguments ideological" is a cultural norm of that community.

http://slatestarcodex.com/ 's comments section (which has somehow become a vibrant community, despite the worst UX for community-building ever) is a pretty good example: there are people from everywhere on the political spectrum, of several religions and varying backgrounds, engaging with one-another on some decidedly controversial topics, where it's the culture of the community—and the desire not to lose it—that keeps everything civil.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#277
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit's reddiquette advises users to use the downvote arrow only to indicate that a post is not constructive or off-topic. Further, users are told that it's best not to downvote just because they disagree with something. The vast overwhelming majority of users on that site use downvotes to indicate disagreement, or dislike. That interpretation of downvoting has, like it or not, spread throughout the internet. Here?…

> It's quite possible to create a community in an IRC channel. Sure, but it didn't used to be the norm. The usage of IRC has shifted over time, from "channel-as-place" to "channel-as-community", with many of the original "channel-as-place" IRC networks now dead or virtual ghost-towns. The big reason everyone is in a love-fest for Slack but can't quite enunciate is that it's IRC but with multiple channels for each com…

>Sure, but it didn't used to be the norm. The usage of IRC has shifted over time, from "channel-as-place" to "channel-as-community."

Interesting. My experience is the opposite. The channels I am still involved with are much less communities now than I knew a couple of decades ago. Anecdotal so not intended as a refutation to your point, just a "hmm, that's interesting..."

>you have to actively look for a community where "keeping ideological arguments ideological" is a cultural norm of that community.

Which is one of the reasons why I like HN. Also the effective moderation here does help.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#278
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Caitlyn. Caitlyn Jenner. Surely the definition of "transgender" couldn't have eluded you while you were making a point about her being transgender?)

Actually it did. . . I don't see the need for outrage.

What outrage? Simply teaching you some respect, as well as some factual accuracy.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#279
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your political affiliation that you shared? I am curious to know if I would empathise with someone wanting to delegate blocking people with your affiliation by a communal block list.

Libertarian. Apparently detesting violence is unpopular.

Huh. Well, I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say that it's probably some other aspect of libertarianism that offended them. Just saying.

Unless they're actually offended by non-violence, in which case they probably did you a favor.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#280

As someone who grew up in a strongly red area and with beliefs in that vein, I know EXACTLY the kind of exclusion that the author is talking about to a painful degree. For anyone who wants to experience it, walk into any Reddit discussion and tell everyone you're a devout Christian and watch the pseudo intellectuals exercise their "openness." And yes it's true I'm far from the most religious person there is, and I st…

It's amazing to me that the top-rated comment in this thread broadly generalizes both "coastal intellectuals" and "Middle America" with insulting stereotypes. I'm embarrassed that the upvoters of this comment actually agreed with this comment. One trip to Houston or Minneapolis is enough to verify the presence of a thriving arts and culture scene. The anti-intellectual Middle America trope is not factual. One trip to…

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