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Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

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Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#61

Post by bjt »

msh wrote: post #59
andreyf wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to me like it might be WhatsApp that's on a power trip. What would an American judge do if WhatsApp were to ignore a lawful subpoena?

But its not a lawful subpoena. What's app is a America n company, so it should only respond to American supoenas. Just as a American judge should not be able to order a Brazilian company to do anything before having it go though the Brazilian courts.

A Brazilian company with a presence in the US could absolutely be subject to a US court order without any court in Brazil needing to be involved. You don't get to dodge the laws of a country you're operating in just because your HQ is in some other country.

Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#62

Post by Tomte »

aianus wrote: post #50
rbanffy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That and that Facebook may have to comply with valid court orders. How outrageous a judge telling what Facebook should do.

A judge in a corrupt third-world country can say whatever he wants, I don't think Facebook should blindly be following court orders from overseas.

"Overseas" in that context would be the US, right? :-)

We have exactly that problem with Facebook and other big US companies in Europe (Uber comes to mind): they act in Europe (and do damage here), but hide in the US. Oftentimes not even replying to court orders, because hey, what can a lowly regional court judge from Germany do, right?

If you want to play here, comply with our laws. If you don't, then don't be surprised if your business is shut down.

I can totally understand the attitude of the Brazilian judge, even if the result is terrible. But suddenly he is paid attention! Chapeau!

Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#63

Post by jzwinck »

Shank wrote: post #56
adenot wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought if you leave US for more than 3 (?) months you loose your green card status.

The article is about Brazil. He's probably a Brazilian green card holder.

There is no such thing as a Brazilian green card. Green card is a figure of speech that is mostly used to refer to US permanent residency. Other countries often just call it PR.

Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#65

Post by x0x0 »

NN88 wrote: post #42
hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #5

The news is misrepresenting what is actually happening. A judge ruled for a 48 hour ban of WhatsApp from telcos to try to coerce WhatsApp into releasing private chat information for an ongoing criminal investigation (wild guess: they want information from politically exposed actors due to the recent corruption investigations). There are precedents, and that's a tactic local judges are using to try to get cooperation…

I'm not understanding your clarification. It still seems like a ridiculous reason to shut down whatsapp

Not at all. When companies decline to obey local law, it's reasonable for them to be cut off from operating in that country. Which is what the judge is proposing, temporarily. Probably with longer cutoffs to follow if this doesn't inspire obedience of judicial orders.

Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#66

Post by aianus »

Tomte wrote: post #62
aianus wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A judge in a corrupt third-world country can say whatever he wants, I don't think Facebook should blindly be following court orders from overseas.

"Overseas" in that context would be the US, right? :-) We have exactly that problem with Facebook and other big US companies in Europe (Uber comes to mind): they act in Europe (and do damage here), but hide in the US. Oftentimes not even replying to court orders, because hey, what can a lowly regional court judge from Germany do, right? If you want to play here, comply with our laws. If you don't, then don't be surpr…

Why should a lowly regional judge in Germany (or the US for that matter) be allowed to meddle with a national or global communications network? There must be millions of judges in the world, many of whom are corrupt, power-hungry, or just plain stupid. It would be silly for Facebook, Google, etc. to blindly obey each one of their ramblings.

Edit: s/shut down/meddle with/

Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#67

Post by newman314 »

SapphireSun wrote: post #60
newman314 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. I wish Signal had the UX to compete with Telegram so that people would use Signal instead.

I'm really curious. I've been using Signal for years, and it's been much much better than the default app on my phone (not to mention more secure). What's so good about Telegram? I've avoided it because of its suspicious encryption.

To be clear, I'm not advocating for the use of Telegram. I keep posting this in hopes that moxie will understand just how important UX is and hire accordingly.

WhatsApp, Telegram etc. are going to eat Signal's lunch because of the UX and I would like that not to happen.

Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#68

Post by benevol »

jzwinck wrote: post #63
Shank wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is about Brazil. He's probably a Brazilian green card holder.

There is no such thing as a Brazilian green card. Green card is a figure of speech that is mostly used to refer to US permanent residency. Other countries often just call it PR.

> Other countries often just call it PR.

Very urgently needed PR, if one considers the pace at which the country is turning into an Orwellian total surveillance state (most recent data point: CISA bill hidden in the federal budget bill).

Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#69

Post by morgante »

_delirium wrote: post #53
morgante wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would an American judge do if WhatsApp were to ignore a lawful subpoena? Fine WhatsApp. Not compel all telcos to block it...

Contempt of court in the U.S. escalates considerably beyond fines if the company doesn't start complying quickly. The court can jail the company's officers, issue an injunction forcing them to stop doing business, instruct customs to blockade them at the U.S. border (in the case of companies selling physical goods), and a range of other things.

Yes, that's all true.

But they don't compel third parties to block the company's app.

Re: Brazilian Judge Shuts Down WhatsApp for 48 Hours

#70

Post by kuschku »

cthalupa wrote: post #45
rmdoss wrote: post #19

Can confirm whatsapp is down for some friends in Brazil. However, the real reason is not for what Techcrunch is saying. The issue is that WhatsApp didn't want to cooperate with the federal police and release chat information from some criminals. According to some sources there, they followed all due process and WhatsApp ignored. As a retaliation, to show that WhatsApp has to comply with Brazilian local laws when stor…

>As a retaliation, to show that WhatsApp has to comply with Brazilian local laws when storing data from Brazilians using the service in Brazil, they banned WhatsApp for 48 hrs. Why must WhatsApp comply with Brazilian laws? They have no offices there. If I run, say, a porn site, hosted in the US, as a US company, is it my responsibility to prevent users in a country where pornography is illegal from using my site? Do…

The idea is that if WhatsApp doesn’t want to be blocked, they have to follow the laws.

And so they are blocked for 48 hours, warning them that they might be blocked permanently.

It’s the only way to deal with lawbreaking companies in a globalized world.

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