Earlier quoted context omitted.
No. The new part is that even people I didn't offend with my sensibilities are not associating with me on an automated basis.
People choosing to delegate association decisions to others is not new; the mechanism might be novel, but seems to be hardly relevant to the basic effect.
I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
251–260 of 380 posts
Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's less a generalization of everyone who has a degree being incapable of performing that task (I'd imagine a lot would be able to figure it out, it's not complicated) and more the idea that knowledge which is highly useful such as that is viewed as being "beneath" knowledge such as a thorough understanding of the writings of Socrates. The catch there is that knowing Socrates isn't getting you off the side of the ro…
My grandfather used to say to me "all those books and all you do is eat the pages." He would usually say it after I would overthink something ridiculously simple, like righty tighty lefty loosey. He thought it was good that I went to college, but he would always emphasize that knowing and doing are two different things.
Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
Me -> 0-18 Kansas. 18-35 Colorado. 35-42 NYC and Aspen. There are friendly people everywhere. There are assholes everywhere. The notion middle America has disdain for culture and intellectual achievement is two parts in conflict: 1. quite a few people in middle America are poorly educated because of their religion and politics, and the political system, permit them to elect ideological morons to school councils, and…
> "Me -> 0-18 Kansas. 18-35 Colorado. 35-42 NYC and Aspen. There are friendly people everywhere. There are assholes everywhere. The notion middle America has disdain for culture and intellectual achievement is two parts in conflict:" Please point out to me where I said that middle America has no culture and we're all friendly, and that the coasts are nothing but cultured snobs. While you're doing that, look up the de…
Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#254It reminds me of Gad Saad talking on Joe Rogan's podcast about being denied professorship at various universities for not being Christian enough. I believe at one point he was asked to write a short essay on his relationship with Jesus as his saviour (at which point he realized that job offer wasn't probably going to work out). [I don't have a link at this time]
Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's amazing to me that the top-rated comment in this thread broadly generalizes both "coastal intellectuals" and "Middle America" with insulting stereotypes. I'm embarrassed that the upvoters of this comment actually agreed with this comment. One trip to Houston or Minneapolis is enough to verify the presence of a thriving arts and culture scene. The anti-intellectual Middle America trope is not factual. One trip to…
> It's amazing to me that the top-rated comment in this thread broadly generalizes both "coastal intellectuals" and "Middle America" with insulting stereotypes. It's amazing to me that you took this (what you've recognized as) hyperbole'd and obviously emotionally filled post and assumed this is how I act in daily life, a point which I didn't feel I needed to make but apparently must do so is that of course I do not…
My personal ideal for "well-done political debate" is comes from economists: they can quickly distinguish between facts, speculation about facts, and value judgements, and then engage with the first two while steering clear of the third. (It does make for some silly interviews, though: journalists basically only care about people's value-judgements, and economists will redirect every attempt at getting theirs into a discussion about some fact or another.)
Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, you can be annoyed with my tone or even not like me personally. But, down-voting me just for one of those reasons - that's just a form of suppression / censorship. But, on the other hand, I know I violated the guidelines, so I took a risk. Just trying to prove a point.
Well, yeah; that's what downvoting means: "I want to protect everyone else from wasting their time reading this." It certainly is suppression; and everyone who wants to be here has signed up for suppression. Calling it censorship, though, makes it sound like you think of HN as your blog. HN is a forum; a downvote is the virtual equivalent of what happens in a real public forum when people—as a group—decide to walk aw…
Thanks for pointing that out. It's good to learn new things.
Although I feel kind of aged at the moment, it also makes me feel good knowing that I can now suppress people much more liberally and not [care if their content was meant to be constructive or not]. Who knew?
edit from: give a shit
Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
> beardy invisible man living in the sky The only things actually pertinent to monotheistic doctrines are "invisible" and "living". > Scientists do not believe in parallel universes, dark matter and all the other stuff you mentioned. Of course they do. They create models and then try to interpret them using what looks more like philosophy than hard science. What they get sometimes is nothing short of unsubstantiated…
No they don't. You are simply confused. Read the definition from wikipedia: "Belief is the state of mind in which a person thinks something to be the case, with or without there being empirical evidence to prove that something is the case with factual certainty" The reason why you're confused is simple; you conflate casual speech with literal definitions. When you hear scientists say "I believe that... blah blah" is…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_We_Believe_But_Cannot_Pro...
There's a whole book with responses from real scientists regarding this.
Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, yeah; that's what downvoting means: "I want to protect everyone else from wasting their time reading this." It certainly is suppression; and everyone who wants to be here has signed up for suppression. Calling it censorship, though, makes it sound like you think of HN as your blog. HN is a forum; a downvote is the virtual equivalent of what happens in a real public forum when people—as a group—decide to walk aw…
Interesting perspective. If that's the current common view, then in a way I feel really outdated. I clearly haven't been paying attention and honestly haven't been aware that 'down-voting' has changed in meaning over the past 10 years or so. Thanks for pointing that out. It's good to learn new things. Although I feel kind of aged at the moment, it also makes me feel good knowing that I can now suppress people much mo…
Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, yeah; that's what downvoting means: "I want to protect everyone else from wasting their time reading this." It certainly is suppression; and everyone who wants to be here has signed up for suppression. Calling it censorship, though, makes it sound like you think of HN as your blog. HN is a forum; a downvote is the virtual equivalent of what happens in a real public forum when people—as a group—decide to walk aw…
Interesting perspective. If that's the current common view, then in a way I feel really outdated. I clearly haven't been paying attention and honestly haven't been aware that 'down-voting' has changed in meaning over the past 10 years or so. Thanks for pointing that out. It's good to learn new things. Although I feel kind of aged at the moment, it also makes me feel good knowing that I can now suppress people much mo…
I think the change happened gradually; people saw what happened as the result of espousing populist "everyone has a voice and a downvote is only for trolling" policies, on sites like Slashdot and Digg and early pre-subreddits Reddit: a reversion-to-the-societal-mean of cat pictures and other "shallow content", and the complete inability to have a discussion on a topic of any controversy.
The reaction, as seen originally in MetaFilter and SomethingAwful, and lately in post-subreddits Reddit, Tumblr, Discourse, Slack, etc., is that attempting to create a community that contains people with diametrically-opposed viewpoints is silly, and the fundamental verb of community-building is moderation: banning people who don't fit in, so that what's left is a pleasant place to have a conversation without anyone needing to expend any effort in tolerating anyone else.
The group who believes in the early, populist systems, calls the second wave of systems "echo chambers"—but engaging with that idea at an object-level is silly, because I really believe there's a fundamental difference between the environment in which the two kinds of forums were built.
The first wave of forums were built from the ideas of Usenet, IRC, and ISP-hosted chatrooms: open-access "places" that served as Schelling points for anyone interested in a topic. There was no real possibility for moderation, and the sheer scale of the problem (the possibility of a 10000:1 user-to-moderator ratio) made "community-building" impossible. Also, it was, for many people, the only place online where they could express themselves—for anyone who wasn't enough of a wizard to put together HTML and a web-server, the shiny "POST" button on a forum somewhere was the only way to get their opinion out there.
The second wave of forums is being built in an environment where everyone has their own blog (or Twitter/Facebook feed), people can asymmetrically "follow" one-another's blogs in numerous ways and "unfollow" when they lose interest, and people each use many small forums to engage in their interests, where frequently these blog posts are shared (this being the usual way people's personal blogs get discovered.)
In this newer system, each forum is less like a "place", and more like a "group"—a circle of friends that happen to share a common interest, but who also share values that allow them to get along even when not talking about that interest. People bounce around between many small group-forums (HN being one of those) until they find a few forums compatible with their values, and then stay active in all of them, fully comfortable with the idea of participating in several non-overlapping spheres that could be connected and mixed together, but that aren't, for social rather than topical reasons.
One more interesting aspect of the newer Internet is that, when engaged in these group-forums, people naturally lean toward developing "faces": different presentations of aspects of themselves, tuned to the interests and values of the group. I would never talk about e.g. my weekends spent with my girlfriend with my online D&D group, because they're all single so it'd just annoy them. What I do on the weekend is an aspect of me, but it's not an aspect of "that guy that posts in that Slack team." And so on for each group-forum we engage with.
I can understand missing the old "place culture" of the Internet—the heady days where a forum was just everybody that happened to like something or be somewhere, where both heavy arguments and friendships could spring up. But I think I prefer the current culture: the one thing it's done for me, personally, is to remove some "perennial arguments" from most of the places I visit. Having a community means being able to have a culture, with cultural mores like "we know we don't agree about X, and at this point more ink spilled on the subject is just wasted"—and being able to teach that culture even to new members who weren't there for the original arguments. There's much less to roll my eyes at on the new Internet (though there is the whole concept of "hate-blogging", where people build communities based on a shared distaste for something, and then sometimes things leak out of those communities and it's quite painful.) It's also much simpler to make "real" friends (as opposed to acquaintances), since joining a group-forum is less like joining a society (which tells you nothing about how likely anyone there is to like you), and more like joining a club (where, if you liked the club enough to join, this greatly increases your chances you'll like the people in the club enough to become personal friends.)
Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
Way to have a holier-than-though attitude right off the bat. "Oh, look at me, I am so misunderstood for having OPINIONS" Your opinions are that it's OK to casually look down on people for having political views. I think that's a legit reason for someone to think that your opinions are full of it and are worth downvoting.
Actually, I just meant that opinions in general are not tolerated anymore (not only mine). Look, you have to understand that I grew up in the 80s and 90s. Having an opinion and expressing it was a big thing, back then. But, these days, it's all about conformity (or seems so, to these eyes).
For example, here's mine: In my opinion when some dude enters a conversation and calls a huge chunk of the people in it "intellectually lazy and weak", that dude is kind of an asshole, and probably thinks that he is way smarter than he actually is.