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I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

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Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#61

Post by FussyZeus »

BellsOnSunday wrote: post #45
FussyZeus wrote: post #5

As someone who grew up in a strongly red area and with beliefs in that vein, I know EXACTLY the kind of exclusion that the author is talking about to a painful degree. For anyone who wants to experience it, walk into any Reddit discussion and tell everyone you're a devout Christian and watch the pseudo intellectuals exercise their "openness." And yes it's true I'm far from the most religious person there is, and I st…

I don't recognise the prejudice against practical skills in my neck of the woods (CS dept in a UK university) but religious colleagues are quietly looked down upon and sometimes mocked. (Not that there are many of them.) I try as hard as I can not to judge such people myself but will admit to finding it hard to take someone seriously who believes in such stuff. Being able or unable to change a tyre doesn't come close…

Speaking as someone who does: Those of us who do are often raised in a very religious place among very religious people, it's a big part of our lives. Rationally, I have no reason to believe in any God. That's why it's called a belief.

It's a lot more to do with the culture one grows up with than the belief itself, and anything you learn at such a young age is difficult to shake loose of completely.

Personally, I used to be a strong Lutheran, I'd say I'm now 20% Lutheran and 80% agnostic, but even that has far less to do with me intellectually not recognizing my God and a lot more to do with frustrations over the behaviors of organized religions.

In short: For a lot of people that I know and myself, religion is far less believing that God is going to help you in some way (frankly, if you know your Bible, you know God's help tends to come in rather rough and leaves a lot of things broken so you don't really want it anyway) and lot more in believing that it's just a nicer universe to live in if you assume that you simply cease to exist at the point of death and there is nothing but...well, nothing awaiting you over that line.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#62

Post by talmand »

fromMars wrote: post #51

I grew up in a red state, too, and as an atheist, I got tired of being told I was going to hell by peers and forced to pray at school events. As such, I have a lot of Christian friends but, it is understandable that some "intellectuals" are hostile to those with strong religious beliefs given that many with similar beliefs deny scientific concepts like evolution, advocate teaching creationism in schools, and deny the…

I'm curious, how exactly were you forced to pray at school events?

Regardless, maybe the intellectuals should stop being hostile, have an honest dialogue with such people, and maybe they'll get somewhere.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#63

Post by aaronem »

creshal wrote: post #37
CM30 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, pretty much this. It's also often the case with certain media outlets and politicians too, who make the assumption that anyone who's religious, not socially 'left wing' or anything else is a bigot who should be looked upon with disdain at every possible opportunity. It's great ammunition for certain politicians (like Trump or his UK and European counterparts).

To an European it's always amusing when Americans pretend they have a left wing.

To an American it's always amusing when a European tells us our political system is unsatisfactory. Over and over and over again. Never gets old. No, really. Keep it up.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#64

Post by vezzy-fnord »

engi_nerd wrote: post #60
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is clearly wrong unless you posthumously redefine all right-wing political violence as being leftist. Though, really, "left" and "right" are useless terms without defining your usage of them beforehand. Rest assured, there are many right-wingers who are all too willing to make the personal political and to stifle dissent. In fact, that's more-or-less a signature distinction of the New Right that emerged around t…

...Isn't one of the tropes of the left that you can't just reject the experiences of others offhand in such a manner? Maybe the parent has been run out of places when his views were known. Who are you to just reject that and say that's wrong?

I don't know, I'm not a leftist. Though what you seem to be describing are postmodernism and moral relativism, and I know plenty of left-wing people who reject both.

Again, the term "left" is useless without defining it first. I have no idea what the hell you actually mean when you say "left".

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#65

Post by dang »

josinalvo wrote: post #25
OJFord wrote: post #18

Does 'rationalisation' have some strange meaning in this context that I'm unfamiliar with? As far as I'm concerned any view justifying the matter is a rationalisation, left or right wing politically; agree or disagree it's certainly nothing to be upset about being called a rationalisation.

Rationalization is usually said when the conclusion comes first, and the "reasoning" latter. First you decide what you think, then why. This "reasoning" is considered suspect, and called a rationalization.

"So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since it enables one to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to do."

http://www.ushistory.org/franklin/autobiography/page18.htm

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#66

Post by linkregister »

FussyZeus wrote: post #5

As someone who grew up in a strongly red area and with beliefs in that vein, I know EXACTLY the kind of exclusion that the author is talking about to a painful degree. For anyone who wants to experience it, walk into any Reddit discussion and tell everyone you're a devout Christian and watch the pseudo intellectuals exercise their "openness." And yes it's true I'm far from the most religious person there is, and I st…

It's amazing to me that the top-rated comment in this thread broadly generalizes both "coastal intellectuals" and "Middle America" with insulting stereotypes.

I'm embarrassed that the upvoters of this comment actually agreed with this comment. One trip to Houston or Minneapolis is enough to verify the presence of a thriving arts and culture scene. The anti-intellectual Middle America trope is not factual.

One trip to Winchester, VA or Davidsonville, MD (Washington, DC suburbs) will reveal farming communities that exude pragmatism. Hell, there's a popular trap shooting range in Greenbelt, MD.

If DC or some other bogeyman city is so hostile to "bible-thumping", how can you explain the large church attendance there?

I think this comment is a reaction to a handful of personal experiences that you had. The rest of your comments aren't as hyperbolic as this one. I agree that it is frustrating when dealing with rude people, but to generalize about similar folks is exactly the thing that bugs you!

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#67

Post by oldmanjay »

engi_nerd wrote: post #56
thieving_magpie wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that it isn't addressing the substance of the post. I think it speaks to the heart of it. Please feel free to elaborate on why I'm wrong.

I believe the parent has posted and explained exactly what he meant. But here's how I understood it: He was exaggerating a bit for the purpose of making his argument a little more punchy, and phrases like "most of whom can't even swap a tire for a donut without calling AAA" are clearly meant to have an element of humor to them. You took his words at absolute face value without stopping to think that they might be mea…

Hyperbole serves no master. Employ it to bolster a point, and we might use our fancy coastal intelligences to reason that the point is probably weak.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#68

Post by talmand »

creshal wrote: post #37
CM30 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, pretty much this. It's also often the case with certain media outlets and politicians too, who make the assumption that anyone who's religious, not socially 'left wing' or anything else is a bigot who should be looked upon with disdain at every possible opportunity. It's great ammunition for certain politicians (like Trump or his UK and European counterparts).

To an European it's always amusing when Americans pretend they have a left wing.

As an American I'm always confused by this kind of statement. From what I've read of European politics it really doesn't seem that different in the rhetoric, just in how the different parties and individuals refer to themselves. The laws and systems are different, but to me the politicians are roughly the same.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#69

Post by CM30 »

creshal wrote: post #37
CM30 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, pretty much this. It's also often the case with certain media outlets and politicians too, who make the assumption that anyone who's religious, not socially 'left wing' or anything else is a bigot who should be looked upon with disdain at every possible opportunity. It's great ammunition for certain politicians (like Trump or his UK and European counterparts).

To an European it's always amusing when Americans pretend they have a left wing.

I'm European, I just consider certain US politicians as more left or right wing than others.

But relatively speaking, the pattern holds true even in places with different political norms and what not. The media is disdain for people who don't agree with the academic/media/whatever narrative are vilified, they turn to candidates with some questionable views because they don't treat them terribly and it just starts spiraling out of control.

Re: I was denied admission to a PhD program because of my perceived political views

#70

Post by engi_nerd »

oldmanjay wrote: post #67
engi_nerd wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the parent has posted and explained exactly what he meant. But here's how I understood it: He was exaggerating a bit for the purpose of making his argument a little more punchy, and phrases like "most of whom can't even swap a tire for a donut without calling AAA" are clearly meant to have an element of humor to them. You took his words at absolute face value without stopping to think that they might be mea…

Hyperbole serves no master. Employ it to bolster a point, and we might use our fancy coastal intelligences to reason that the point is probably weak.

Or, you might laugh? It is funny.

Taking this single little point and then using it to systematically reject the whole argument is an example of what the parent was ranting about.

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