Philips reverses decision to close the Hue Platform • Hacker News Board

Re: Philips reverses decision to close the Hue Platform

#41

Post by mathgeek » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 2:09 PM UTC

ohitsdom wrote: post #8

"We underestimated the impact this would have upon the small number of our customers" Do they really believe it is a small number of customers that use non-Philips light bulbs? I mean, good for them in reversing the decision, but the damage is already done (check out Amazon reviews for one) and it should have been easily foreseen.

You'll notice that gem on many press releases that concern a company apologizing or backtracking. It's usually done in order to downplay an issue and/or avoid making any statements that could be used against them in a lawsuit down the line. By saying it only affected a small number of users, they maintain plausible deniability that they knew how badly they screwed up.

Re: Philips reverses decision to close the Hue Platform

#42

Post by pjc50 » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 2:10 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #30

raverbashing wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pray tell how does a LED Lamp can burn your house down Oh wait it can't (if it can because your wiring is crap and the protection devices are not working you have much bigger problems)

A LED bulb converts your 230V AC (or 110V in the US) power source into 12V DC (in case of Hue itself). This converter part can, if poorly made, create a fire hazard. And a bulb is usually mounted inside a lamp, many of which are flammable and have the shape that will accumulate heat inside instead of dissipating it.

.. but that's not a software issue.

Re: Philips reverses decision to close the Hue Platform

#43

Post by HarryHirsch » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 2:11 PM UTC

Compare this with Ethernet. You plug it in - and it just works. No 3com/Realtek/Intel certification required. As a user I may be shielded, but I believe there are no interoperability issues between Cisco/Juniper/Brocade switchgear either.

With this as the background, it's surprising to see a large crowd defending the equivalent of Ford-branded gasoline.

Re: Philips reverses decision to close the Hue Platform

#44

Post by culturestate » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 2:16 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #36

culturestate wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this would accomplish anything vis-a-vis brand protection, since consumers have been conditioned to just click "OK" at every dialog box that doesn't look like it will explode a mine. Six months down the line, nobody would remember the warning -- they'd still get mad at Philips when a third-party bulb breaks.

> they'd still get mad at Philips when a third-party bulb breaks. Would they? Wouldn't they blame their bulb first? It's like complaining to your PC manufacturer that a program you downloaded doesn't work. Most people would blame the program and look for another one. I'm sure there are some who have it backwards, and they probably will be calling support, but I can't imagine there's enough of them for a company to ac…

> It's like complaining to your PC manufacturer that a program you downloaded doesn't work.

This happens far, far more often than you would think. That line from Men in Black -- "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky animals." -- rings more true every time I work with a client who handles front-line tech support.

I do have to wonder how much of a difference it would make right now, though. Hue is presumably still in the early adopter stage (especially if we're talking about people who are adding non-Hue Zigbee devices to the setup), where you'd hope this kind of confusion would be less common.

Edit: this is one of the primary reasons Apple exercises so much control over third party integration on iOS. They get the blame for everything.

Re: Philips reverses decision to close the Hue Platform

#45

Post by TeMPOraL » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 2:18 PM UTC

rrrx3 wrote: post #26

rubidium wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either A) You don't trust any large, publically traded company. B) You don't understand how large, publically traded companies work. This decision was made by someone in marketing. Phillips engineers (in this division) were ambivalent because it meant less verification and testing (yea!) but also means they have a less capable product. It got approved because someone (likely a director somewhere) put together a marke…

The decision to only support Philips products came most likely from the engineering division themselves. Marketing probably had a shit-fit because losing a marketable feature is a giant regression to your general user. People in Marketing and Product tend to be way more in-tune with customers and don't make boneheaded decisions like this. Another easy tell: the company was shocked by the reaction of users. That meant…

> People in Marketing and Product tend to be way more in-tune with customers and don't make boneheaded decisions like this. Another easy tell: the company was shocked by the reaction of users. That meant the company wasn't aware of user impressions of the decision. That also meant Product/Marketing teams weren't involved in the decision.

I disagree. Almost every shitty (customer-wise) decision I've seen a company doing was made by Marketing / Sales people. It's them who figure out that they can get more money by doing something repulsive.

This here seems to me like someone was calculating how much more they can earn by pushing manufacturers down the "Friends of Hue" line, but underestimated just how many people use non-FoH bulbs (or just how much nerds care about interoperability). Probably not someone from marketing, definitely not someone from engineering.

> When the "what does it cost us to test this compatibility" calculus comes out as more expensive than "what is the cost of the backlash to our company," you realize that Engineering divisions without enough resources are driving this type of decision, 99 times out of 100.

Why would they care? They're not testing compatibility with Chinese knockoffs anyway, that's why they use ZigBee, and that's why they have a "Friends of Hue" program.

Re: Philips reverses decision to close the Hue Platform

#46

Post by nkrisc » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 2:19 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #36

culturestate wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this would accomplish anything vis-a-vis brand protection, since consumers have been conditioned to just click "OK" at every dialog box that doesn't look like it will explode a mine. Six months down the line, nobody would remember the warning -- they'd still get mad at Philips when a third-party bulb breaks.

> they'd still get mad at Philips when a third-party bulb breaks. Would they? Wouldn't they blame their bulb first? It's like complaining to your PC manufacturer that a program you downloaded doesn't work. Most people would blame the program and look for another one. I'm sure there are some who have it backwards, and they probably will be calling support, but I can't imagine there's enough of them for a company to ac…

I think you're overestimating the technical savvy of most people.

Re: Philips reverses decision to close the Hue Platform

#47

Post by TeMPOraL » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 2:27 PM UTC

culturestate wrote: post #44

TeMPOraL wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they'd still get mad at Philips when a third-party bulb breaks. Would they? Wouldn't they blame their bulb first? It's like complaining to your PC manufacturer that a program you downloaded doesn't work. Most people would blame the program and look for another one. I'm sure there are some who have it backwards, and they probably will be calling support, but I can't imagine there's enough of them for a company to ac…

> It's like complaining to your PC manufacturer that a program you downloaded doesn't work. This happens far, far more often than you would think. That line from Men in Black -- "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky animals." -- rings more true every time I work with a client who handles front-line tech support. I do have to wonder how much of a difference it would make right now , though. Hue is presumably st…

My SO worked way too long answering customer phone calls; I had a healthy fit of horror stories every week. But what I learned from them is that it's all selection bias - savvy, smart customers generally don't call. They solve things themselves, they find solutions themselves, they trust the established procedures (e.g. of returning the merchandise), but above all, they don't call with stupid requests or to bitch about how bad the company is. They only call if you fucked up big.

What remains is a mix of "dumb, panicky animals" and people for whom calling is the best option (they may be in a hurry; or for many older people, phone call is the method they're used to and one they trust). It's something you have to deal with, it's for them that you have support in the first place. But for a company like Philips, I can't imagine those support calls make any difference brand-wise. Most companies I know could drop their private-customer help lines altogether, having them respond with busy tone all the time, and nobody would likely notice.

Re: Philips reverses decision to close the Hue Platform

#48

Post by jon-wood » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 2:28 PM UTC

mdip wrote: post #24

A point brought up in the replies to their forum post warrants repeating: They claim that they were concerned about the quality of their brand being eroded by third-party bulbs that didn't reproduce the same quality experience that first-party/certified bulbs did. They had the solution available to them from day one. Since they can clearly identify third-party bulbs, they could have simply presented a warning along t…

The process of pairing non-Hue devices with the bridge is convoluted enough that it should be pretty clear to anyone involved that it isn't supported. You need either a third party Java application downloaded from an amateur looking site, or to telnet into your bridge and give it the right commands.

Re: Philips reverses decision to close the Hue Platform

#49

Post by spdustin » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 2:29 PM UTC

ohitsdom wrote: post #8

"We underestimated the impact this would have upon the small number of our customers" Do they really believe it is a small number of customers that use non-Philips light bulbs? I mean, good for them in reversing the decision, but the damage is already done (check out Amazon reviews for one) and it should have been easily foreseen.

I do, 100%, and there's no reason they wouldn't know this from metrics sent by their apps/bridge.

Not a single Hue-using person I know, outside of HN, has any clue about ZigBee or interoperability or any of the stuff that a small fraction of Hue users care about. None of them. If it wasn't on the placard in Best Buy next to the bulbs, it wasn't even a passing thought.

I am pleased they reversed their decision. I don't actually care about interoperability, even though I am a technically minded user deep into home automation and relevant protocols. But I still recognize the significance of a big company offering up a mea culpa when they get heat from a vocal group of customers. Not many have the courage to do so.

Let's not diminish that they responded to customer backlash by manufacturing other reasons to hate them, or by generalizing. They actually did what the users wanted.

Re: Philips reverses decision to close the Hue Platform

#50

Post by brudgers » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 2:29 PM UTC

mdip wrote: post #24

A point brought up in the replies to their forum post warrants repeating: They claim that they were concerned about the quality of their brand being eroded by third-party bulbs that didn't reproduce the same quality experience that first-party/certified bulbs did. They had the solution available to them from day one. Since they can clearly identify third-party bulbs, they could have simply presented a warning along t…

The useful solution from a customer [1] standpoint is to create value at the level of the interface by just making it work with whatever is hooked up...e.g. decoupling the service from other services. Imagine if Google search only worked for Android device owners. Making each part of a system excellent in it's own right is just better...here it would drive the bulb making team to make bulbs capable of frolicking outside a walled garden.

[1] Customers are people with an important relationship. Consumers are things with a behavior, e.g. my toaster consumes electric power. When people are seen as consumers companies do dumb things...like communicate with utter bullshit.