Why can't China make a good ballpoint pen? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why can't China make a good ballpoint pen?

#11

Post by nroets » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 7:13 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #4

It's not that they couldn't if they wanted to; they could. But the history of domestic demand has been for cheap pens --the BICs/Papermates of the world. Their history of consumer products has been very utilitarian from pens to the mao jackets and the "iron furnace in every yard"[1] program to bootstrap industrialization onto a country where it arrived late. So, the opportunity arrived where they had plenty of availa…

I think Mr. Li would consider Bic a good pen. "crappy pen(s) ... leak ink".

There are lot of unbranded pens in the market that stop working even before the ink inside them are used up. On the other hand, Bic has better pens because they cannot afford to disappoint customers.

China faces a branding problem, but most markets are saturated and cannot accommodate another brand.

Re: Why can't China make a good ballpoint pen?

#12

Post by altonzheng » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 7:13 AM UTC

For some reason imagined folding fan as some compact mechanically fan that could be compacted. Then I googled it and turns out it's just a paper fan. Very disappointed

Re: Why can't China make a good ballpoint pen?

#13

Post by anabis » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 7:18 AM UTC

slavik81 wrote: post #9

anabis wrote: post #7

Ballpoint pens and erasers in the USA also felt rough to me, a Japanese. I don't know about the other 2 countries mentioned in the article (Germany and Switzerland), but maybe its the countries culture? Previously posted story of Hagoromo chalk is another example of Japanese high quality stationery .

My favourite mechanical pencil is the Pentel Side FX, which is apparently Japanese as well.

I use the Uni Jetstream 3 Color Ballpoint Multi Pen - 0.7 mm. I bought several with different case colors.

Re: Why can't China make a good ballpoint pen?

#14

Post by voltagex_ » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 7:19 AM UTC

civilian wrote: post #10

jonah wrote: post #6

Maybe it's just as well. Ballpoint pens are terrible. How The Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/08/ballpo... Discussed earlier this year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10141874

As a lefty, cursive can stay dead.

Hello fellow lefty. What do you use to write on paper these days? I've got the last remaining good Bic Reactive pens stashed at work, but I don't think I can get any more.

Re: Why can't China make a good ballpoint pen?

#15

Post by mc32 » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 7:19 AM UTC

nroets wrote: post #11

mc32 wrote: post #4

It's not that they couldn't if they wanted to; they could. But the history of domestic demand has been for cheap pens --the BICs/Papermates of the world. Their history of consumer products has been very utilitarian from pens to the mao jackets and the "iron furnace in every yard"[1] program to bootstrap industrialization onto a country where it arrived late. So, the opportunity arrived where they had plenty of availa…

I think Mr. Li would consider Bic a good pen. "crappy pen(s) ... leak ink". There are lot of unbranded pens in the market that stop working even before the ink inside them are used up. On the other hand, Bic has better pens because they cannot afford to disappoint customers. China faces a branding problem, but most markets are saturated and cannot accommodate another brand.

Right, but most Chinese pens work like bics. Most don't explode ink in your pockets.

After the reconstruction of WWII Japan too had a branding issue. Before wwi the US had a branding issue. We all have to start somewhere and work our ways up.

I believe the PRC spokesperson just wanted to embarrass industry in general to get them to think about improvement and innovation --which is good and well, but I don't think its couth to bite the hand that fed you. It seemed a bit ungrateful.

Re: Why can't China make a good ballpoint pen?

#16

Post by voltagex_ » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 7:21 AM UTC

miander wrote: post #2

A decline in low-quality Chinese goods would certainly be a boon for the environment. The amount of waste plastic from discarded pens alone must be huge.

You'll have to get a decline in purchasing first.

Re: Why can't China make a good ballpoint pen?

#17

Post by pheroden » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 7:28 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #15

nroets wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Mr. Li would consider Bic a good pen. "crappy pen(s) ... leak ink". There are lot of unbranded pens in the market that stop working even before the ink inside them are used up. On the other hand, Bic has better pens because they cannot afford to disappoint customers. China faces a branding problem, but most markets are saturated and cannot accommodate another brand.

Right, but most Chinese pens work like bics. Most don't explode ink in your pockets. After the reconstruction of WWII Japan too had a branding issue. Before wwi the US had a branding issue. We all have to start somewhere and work our ways up. I believe the PRC spokesperson just wanted to embarrass industry in general to get them to think about improvement and innovation --which is good and well, but I don't think its…

They don't, and this is the problem. They aren't talking designer.

Re: Why can't China make a good ballpoint pen?

#18

Post by pocketstar » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 7:41 AM UTC

voltagex_ wrote: post #14

civilian wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a lefty, cursive can stay dead.

Hello fellow lefty. What do you use to write on paper these days? I've got the last remaining good Bic Reactive pens stashed at work, but I don't think I can get any more.

Pentel EnerGel Liquid Gel Ink 0.5(Made in Japan) is the best left friendly pen I have used to date, ink dries instantly so no lefty smudge. The sharpie pen is a close second.

Re: Why can't China make a good ballpoint pen?

#19

Post by metafex » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 7:45 AM UTC

civilian wrote: post #10

jonah wrote: post #6

Maybe it's just as well. Ballpoint pens are terrible. How The Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/08/ballpo... Discussed earlier this year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10141874

As a lefty, cursive can stay dead.

I write cursive with a Pilot G-Tec C4 and am a lefty. I also tend to write very small and generally never had a problem with fine tips, thicker tips and fountain pens OTOH disagree with me. So i guess it's just a matter of trying things (and pens) out :)

Re: Why can't China make a good ballpoint pen?

#20

Post by ci5er » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 7:45 AM UTC

altonzheng wrote: post #12

For some reason imagined folding fan as some compact mechanically fan that could be compacted. Then I googled it and turns out it's just a paper fan. Very disappointed

The ones commonly used in Japan when I lived there a 25-or-so years ago, weren't paper. There were many kinds, styles, qualities and makes at the (say, Seibu) department store. During the festivals in July/August (Obon), a lot of fans being used were a lot more like this:

  - http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Handheld-Folding-Blossoms-Cascade/dp/B0018GFK1Y

That may have changed.

When the mama-san of our local izakaya (a sort of "pub") came back from holiday in China (or was it Thailand?), she brought back some of this type of sandal-wood deal as souvenirs:

  - http://www.amazon.com/Leegoal-Chinese-Sandalwood-Scented-Openwork/dp/B003Y79034

I'm guessing that this is probably what is being referred to in the article?

N.B. I'm only using the Amazon product links as exemplars. I do not intend to implicate the retailer (Amazon, here), the manufacturer or the products in my adventures of mis-remembering.