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IncludeOS roadmap: tiny Node.js-style web services in highly efficient C++

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Re: IncludeOS roadmap: tiny Node.js-style web services in highly efficient C++

#2

Post by std_throwaway »

At first it seemed strange that a Node.js-replacement needs a full IP stack including DHCP.

As far as I understood this, they are building a whole operating system to be run in a VM like QEMU which then acts like a Node.js-instance - except that it's programmed in C++ and linked as one whole exeutable which also is a complete OS.

I wonder how this compares to Docker or Sandstorm where the existing kernel API is used in a virtualized container instead of emulating a whole machine.

Re: IncludeOS roadmap: tiny Node.js-style web services in highly efficient C++

#4

Post by [deleted] »

std_throwaway wrote: post #2

At first it seemed strange that a Node.js-replacement needs a full IP stack including DHCP. As far as I understood this, they are building a whole operating system to be run in a VM like QEMU which then acts like a Node.js-instance - except that it's programmed in C++ and linked as one whole exeutable which also is a complete OS. I wonder how this compares to Docker or Sandstorm where the existing kernel API is used…

[deleted]

Re: IncludeOS roadmap: tiny Node.js-style web services in highly efficient C++

#6

Post by hanez »

Sounds a little bit crazy to me at first but when thinking about it, it is a nice idea.

May you should take a look at Rump Kernels and build your stuff on top. Then you do not need to implement the OS stuff - It's done already. May I am wrong but it seems to be a similiar idea but the following project is currently at the OS level only but some applications like ngnix are working already. I was very confused when I first read about Rump Kernels and after reading a while and watching some conference talks a lot of stuff made sense to me even if I do not understand in detail what they are doing.

http://rumpkernel.org/

https://github.com/rumpkernel

Re: IncludeOS roadmap: tiny Node.js-style web services in highly efficient C++

#7

Post by hanez »

std_throwaway wrote: post #2

At first it seemed strange that a Node.js-replacement needs a full IP stack including DHCP. As far as I understood this, they are building a whole operating system to be run in a VM like QEMU which then acts like a Node.js-instance - except that it's programmed in C++ and linked as one whole exeutable which also is a complete OS. I wonder how this compares to Docker or Sandstorm where the existing kernel API is used…

What they want to do is to implement the concept of a unikernel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unikernel). That's a very different approach then running a complete OS with their software stack on top. Take a look at the two links in my other comment.

Re: IncludeOS roadmap: tiny Node.js-style web services in highly efficient C++

#8

Post by kentonv »

I like this idea, but I don't understand describing it as "node.js-style". I guess they think of Node as being a particularly ideal platform for implementing "microservices", but honestly I don't think there's any particular property of Node.js itself that makes it microservice-friendly. To me "Node.js" simply means "server-side Javascript", which obviously this isn't (it's C++).

Re: IncludeOS roadmap: tiny Node.js-style web services in highly efficient C++

#9

Post by semisight »

hanez wrote: post #6

Sounds a little bit crazy to me at first but when thinking about it, it is a nice idea. May you should take a look at Rump Kernels and build your stuff on top. Then you do not need to implement the OS stuff - It's done already. May I am wrong but it seems to be a similiar idea but the following project is currently at the OS level only but some applications like ngnix are working already. I was very confused when I f…

This seems more like MirageOS/Ling than a rumpkernel. From what I remember, rumpkernels are more general, at the cost of being less "unikernel-y" (i.e. lean and fast). I agree that it would be easier and faster to use a rumpkernel if the intention is use in production soon.

I can't tell if this is a research project, or intended to be production quality at some point.

Re: IncludeOS roadmap: tiny Node.js-style web services in highly efficient C++

#10

Post by vive-la-liberte »

semisight wrote: post #9
hanez wrote: post #6

Sounds a little bit crazy to me at first but when thinking about it, it is a nice idea. May you should take a look at Rump Kernels and build your stuff on top. Then you do not need to implement the OS stuff - It's done already. May I am wrong but it seems to be a similiar idea but the following project is currently at the OS level only but some applications like ngnix are working already. I was very confused when I f…

This seems more like MirageOS/Ling than a rumpkernel. From what I remember, rumpkernels are more general, at the cost of being less "unikernel-y" (i.e. lean and fast). I agree that it would be easier and faster to use a rumpkernel if the intention is use in production soon . I can't tell if this is a research project, or intended to be production quality at some point.

>I can't tell if this is a research project, or intended to be production quality at some point.

Found this on their website [1]:

>IncludeOS is the result of a research project at Oslo and Akershus University College of Applied Science (hioa.no)

>IncludeOS is not production ready - but we're working hard to become so.

[1]: http://www.includeos.org/

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