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Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

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Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#131

Post by Kristine1975 »

golergka wrote: post #116

The fact that this kind of isse will generate publicity after just a year, and that citizens will actually care enough to fight for their rights, and that mayor will feel fallout because of that — it makes me feel so jealous of US. Americans that cry about how the system "doesn't work" really don't have a clue about how this would turn out in other countries.

If the system truly worked, there would be no children with lead poisoning in the first place. That there are places on earth where things are worse doesn't change that.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#132

Post by RUG3Y »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #111
andrelaszlo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to see what Flint looks like, so I dropped the little yellow streetview guy randomly. I ended up on Asylum Street (!). I'm at a loss for words: https://goo.gl/maps/UuPPKQK5MoF2 https://goo.gl/maps/KunFSxxRFWA2 https://goo.gl/maps/yg1NH6ZMkFJ2 https://goo.gl/maps/xVi2n8muHV32 https://goo.gl/maps/pAQEyZSAEw92 https://goo.gl/maps/ssGZRAdiQak (memorial garden?) https://goo.gl/maps/B2waNiVfeut https://goo.gl/maps…

>I'm at a loss for words: Why are you are a loss for words? This doesn't look significantly different from the town I grew up in (well near). I feel like I'm missing something.

Right. I live in a rural area in the West, lots of towns look like this (not as green). The town looks poorly maintained but fairly clean, not a lot of trash etc. I don't see the signs that I see in crime infested areas.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#133

Post by maxsilver »

FussyZeus wrote: post #105
xd1936 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The infrastructure for solid factory work is all still there. They just need a collection of companies from another industry to capitalize on the manufacturing assets there.

What makes this area so good for manufacturing? (I've never been and I'm curious)

There's no environmental protections or regulations of any meaningful kind, property is almost free, and there's a significant labor force of people willing to work for minimum wages.

It's not great for manufacturing. But it's not the worst place to do so.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#134

Post by Kristine1975 »

cmiles74 wrote: post #118
rayiner wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you even know if "big businesses" are even a major consumer of water in Flint? In a city (as opposed to an agricultural area), residential users are probably the primary water users. In any case, even if that were true, how is that relevant to the city charging too low a price for water to be able to replace aging lead pipes?

It comes down to what you think of as a "consumer" of the water. Clearly, someone was using the water to dispose of these contaminants. I admit, it's not as clear-cut as, say, the use of water by the Coca-Cola Company. Regardless, my understanding is that Flint has no money, neither the individual constituents nor the city itself. Literally no one can pay to replace these old pipes. IMHO, the reason they switched wat…

In this case, the lead is in the water pipes, though. It's not the result of industry dumping waste into the river. (At least that's how I understand it.)

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#135

Post by ustherowapp »

evmar wrote: post #82
andrelaszlo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to see what Flint looks like, so I dropped the little yellow streetview guy randomly. I ended up on Asylum Street (!). I'm at a loss for words: https://goo.gl/maps/UuPPKQK5MoF2 https://goo.gl/maps/KunFSxxRFWA2 https://goo.gl/maps/yg1NH6ZMkFJ2 https://goo.gl/maps/xVi2n8muHV32 https://goo.gl/maps/pAQEyZSAEw92 https://goo.gl/maps/ssGZRAdiQak (memorial garden?) https://goo.gl/maps/B2waNiVfeut https://goo.gl/maps…

The way I try to understand it is that the US is about the same size as the EU, has the same magnitude of population, and generally has less interest in equality of its citizens than EU countries. So there are parts of the US comparable to all the parts of the EU -- rich countries and poor ones.

The US is significantly bigger than the EU, actually. http://www.whereisbobl.com/2015/2015-06-alps/lrg/phpRprQU3.j... (doesn't include Alaska, which is another 1/3 or so the size of the continental US.)

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#136

Post by vox_mollis »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #111
andrelaszlo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to see what Flint looks like, so I dropped the little yellow streetview guy randomly. I ended up on Asylum Street (!). I'm at a loss for words: https://goo.gl/maps/UuPPKQK5MoF2 https://goo.gl/maps/KunFSxxRFWA2 https://goo.gl/maps/yg1NH6ZMkFJ2 https://goo.gl/maps/xVi2n8muHV32 https://goo.gl/maps/pAQEyZSAEw92 https://goo.gl/maps/ssGZRAdiQak (memorial garden?) https://goo.gl/maps/B2waNiVfeut https://goo.gl/maps…

>I'm at a loss for words: Why are you are a loss for words? This doesn't look significantly different from the town I grew up in (well near). I feel like I'm missing something.

Bear in mind this is HN. Upper-middle-class people tend to originate from upper-middle-class homes. What many of us grow up in is found to be "shocking" to the Brahmin class.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#137

Post by maxxxxx »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #111
andrelaszlo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to see what Flint looks like, so I dropped the little yellow streetview guy randomly. I ended up on Asylum Street (!). I'm at a loss for words: https://goo.gl/maps/UuPPKQK5MoF2 https://goo.gl/maps/KunFSxxRFWA2 https://goo.gl/maps/yg1NH6ZMkFJ2 https://goo.gl/maps/xVi2n8muHV32 https://goo.gl/maps/pAQEyZSAEw92 https://goo.gl/maps/ssGZRAdiQak (memorial garden?) https://goo.gl/maps/B2waNiVfeut https://goo.gl/maps…

>I'm at a loss for words: Why are you are a loss for words? This doesn't look significantly different from the town I grew up in (well near). I feel like I'm missing something.

I think he is at a loss of words because the supposedly richest country has areas like this.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#138

Post by codyb »

nashashmi wrote: post #78

I just took a look at the Map of Michigan. I realized after zooming into Flint to try to understand where the water was coming from that Michigan has many, many bodies of water scattered all around the place. Plus they are right next to the world's biggest lakes. And yet they never took care of their water supply? The one state with so much fresh water has little regulation on keeping water protected. I keep wonderin…

The reason it's been prophesied that the world in the end will wage war over water, not oil, is because most places in the world aren't surrounded by gigantic lakes of fresh water... not because Flint, MI has lead in their water supply.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#139

Post by kbenson »

evmar wrote: post #82
andrelaszlo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to see what Flint looks like, so I dropped the little yellow streetview guy randomly. I ended up on Asylum Street (!). I'm at a loss for words: https://goo.gl/maps/UuPPKQK5MoF2 https://goo.gl/maps/KunFSxxRFWA2 https://goo.gl/maps/yg1NH6ZMkFJ2 https://goo.gl/maps/xVi2n8muHV32 https://goo.gl/maps/pAQEyZSAEw92 https://goo.gl/maps/ssGZRAdiQak (memorial garden?) https://goo.gl/maps/B2waNiVfeut https://goo.gl/maps…

The way I try to understand it is that the US is about the same size as the EU, has the same magnitude of population, and generally has less interest in equality of its citizens than EU countries. So there are parts of the US comparable to all the parts of the EU -- rich countries and poor ones.

Twice the area, 65% of the population. There are vast swathes of land that are relatively sparsely populated, and also areas that have historically specialized in one industry or another. As those industries wax and wane, so too do the fortunes of many who live in those areas. This is an example of that, where there was a lot of manufacturing (primarily cars) in this area, and as those jobs have moved the populace is hit hard.

That said, my understanding is that the area is brutally cold and wet, and that buildings and infrastructure there quickly goes to shit because of that unless it had regular thorough upkeep.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#140

Post by maxsilver »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #80

So Flint has failed to govern itself - hardly the first time - and now children are poisoned. The city apparently now expects the rest of the country to pick up the tab for the cleanup of their mess. At some point it should become necessary to recognize and acknowledge that self-government has failed and must end. I'd suggest some form of a city death penalty - declare the city dead and give the locals a one-time off…

> So Flint has failed to govern itself - hardly the first time - and now children are poisoned.

To be fair, The State of Michigan took complete control of Flint (through the "Emergency Manager" law). The State of Michigan made the decision to poison Flint's water, not Flint itself.

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