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Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#21

Post by DanBC »

[deleted] wrote: post #9
a3n wrote: post #2

> Through continued demonstrations by Flint residents and mounting scientific evidence of the water’s toxins, city and state officials offered various solutions — from asking residents to boil their water to providing them with water filters — in an attempt to work around the need to reconnect to the Detroit system. Can you boil lead out of water, or does it just become more concentrated?

[deleted]

Iron overdose is pretty dangerous, especially for children.

http://www.who.int/selection_medicines/committees/expert/18/...

Here's what WHO say:

> Several chelating agents are effective in lead excretion, but the chelator of choice depends on the blood lead concentration, the patient’s symptoms and the environmental lead burden. Symptomatic patients should be hospitalized and chelation therapy with Edetate Calcium Disodium (CaNa2EDTA). CaNa2EDTA is an intravenous formulation that has been shown to be effective with British AntiLewisite (BAL, Dimercaprol) for removal of lead in patients with encephalopathy. Edetate calcium disodium, used alone, may aggravate symptoms in patients with very high blood lead levels. When clinical symptoms consistent with lead poisoning or when blood lead levels are greater than 70 micrograms/deciliter, it is recommended that edetate calcium disodium be used in conjunction with dimercaprol.24 British-Anti-Lewisite (BAL) or dimercaprol is a small molecule drug which will cross into cells and may prevent the worsening of clinical and biochemical status on the first day of EDTA therapy.25 Oral chelating agents are available for treatment of lead poisoned patients who have elevated blood lead concentrations and asymptomatic. In the Unites States, 2,3 Dimercaptosuccinic Acid (DMSA, Succimer) is the drug most commonly used. Other oral agents that may be used are DMPS (Unithiol) and penicillamine.

Here's what CDC say about the pharmacology of chelating agents:

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/publications/books/plpyc/chapte...

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#22

Post by rsfern »

a3n wrote: post #2

> Through continued demonstrations by Flint residents and mounting scientific evidence of the water’s toxins, city and state officials offered various solutions — from asking residents to boil their water to providing them with water filters — in an attempt to work around the need to reconnect to the Detroit system. Can you boil lead out of water, or does it just become more concentrated?

You can't boil lead out of water, in the same way that you can't boil salt out of water. Metal extraction is a pretty hard problem.

It seems that you can reduce the levels of the aforementioned trihalomethane compounds by boiling though.

http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2013/959480

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#23

Post by witty_username »

darkr wrote: post #15
alexbock wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Distillation would essentially be doing the reverse, "boiling the water out of the lead", and that would work. But no amount of boiling in a open pot is going to remove lead from your water. It's hard to tell from the article, but the reference to boiling water might have been in response to the other issue mentioned, trihalomethanes in the water. As dissolved gases, boiling should help drive them out. (side note: a…

Yup. Distillation should remove any heavy metal elements. It's not ideal to consume long term, as it removes most useful minerals and results in a hydrogen-heavy/acidic water, but it's certainly far better than consuming lead.

@shabda Hydrogen heavy water means acidic water with high amounts of dissolved H+.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#24

Post by rayiner »

What led to this particular situation was apparently rate hikes in the Detroit water system, which caused Flint to switch to using the Flint river as their water source last year. Beyond that, water systems all over the country are in bad shape. Because water rates are subject to public control, they are far too low and there is a huge under-investment in water systems:http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/a/#p/drinking-water/...

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#25

Post by untothebreach »

ionforce wrote: post #14

What institutional failure led to this? It seems like this has been a long time coming. Why has the leadership of the area allowed this to happen?

I can't tell you the exact reasons, but I would suspect it all comes down to money. I grew up just outside of Flint, went to school in the city, and worked there for a few years. There were winters where the city couldn't afford to plow the roads. They had to lay off most of the firefighters 5 or so years ago, along with much of their police force. It is a struggling area, maybe not quite as much as Detroit, but close to it.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#26

Post by School-Cotton »

[deleted] wrote: post #9
a3n wrote: post #2

> Through continued demonstrations by Flint residents and mounting scientific evidence of the water’s toxins, city and state officials offered various solutions — from asking residents to boil their water to providing them with water filters — in an attempt to work around the need to reconnect to the Detroit system. Can you boil lead out of water, or does it just become more concentrated?

[deleted]

Off-topic, but what's the point of the "this is not medical advice" disclaimer? Your post is, patently obviously, medical advice.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#27

Post by anon1385 »

EliRivers wrote: post #6

I particularly like the comments to that article stating that only "liberals" believe the water supply is heaving with lead. The ridiculous political bun-fight infects everything, it seems. It's a mental disease.

The toxicity of lead is actually a longstanding political argument in the US. Lobbying against lead regulation was one of the original motivations for the development of modern american libertarianism. Even fairly recently libertarian organisations like the Cato Institute have been fighting against regulation of lead and against compensation for those poisoned.

When the topic of lead comes up on HN you often get comments arguing that it isn't really as toxic as claimed.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#28

Post by flippant »

School-Cotton wrote: post #26
[deleted] wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Off-topic, but what's the point of the "this is not medical advice" disclaimer? Your post is, patently obviously, medical advice.

It's a reminder to double-check with your doctor before taking the advice of a stranger on the internet.

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#29

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #24

What led to this particular situation was apparently rate hikes in the Detroit water system, which caused Flint to switch to using the Flint river as their water source last year. Beyond that, water systems all over the country are in bad shape. Because water rates are subject to public control, they are far too low and there is a huge under-investment in water systems: http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/a/#p/dr…

[deleted]

Re: Flint, MI: So much lead in children’s blood, state of emergency declared

#30

Post by darkr »

alexbock wrote: post #20
darkr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Distillation should remove any heavy metal elements. It's not ideal to consume long term, as it removes most useful minerals and results in a hydrogen-heavy/acidic water, but it's certainly far better than consuming lead.

When you say that boiling results in acidic water, are you referring to the fact that pH-neutral water would be slightly more acidic than your (slightly basic) blood, or is this about dissolved CO2 or something else entirely?

It's due to absorbing C02 from the air whilst in gaseous form, which is then subsequently absorbed into the blood stream after consumption.
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