Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

-2000 Lines of Code (2004)

folklore.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 134 posts

Re: -2000 Lines of Code (2004)

#41

Post by marcosdumay »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #9
bargl wrote: post #3

I had a job interview once where the HR rep asked me how many lines of code I wrote a week. I responded, "On a really good week -1000, I don't remember the exact figure." She was extremely confused by this answer and wanted me to give her a number. So she said, "I'll just put down 10,000." This is also the interview where they refused to continue unless I told them how much money I made (which I don't do anymore). Th…

What is the current average in a language like C# or Java for a skilled developer? Average that goes into production rather than what's likely thrown away.

In a week long project (some supporting tool, or something similar) it's easy to write 10k lines a week. In a 6 months project, 10-100 lines are more likely, and in an "eternal" software that is already mostly written, 0 is a perfectly fine number.

Re: -2000 Lines of Code (2004)

#42

Post by nickpsecurity »

marcosdumay wrote: post #41
nickpsecurity wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the current average in a language like C# or Java for a skilled developer? Average that goes into production rather than what's likely thrown away.

In a week long project (some supporting tool, or something similar) it's easy to write 10k lines a week. In a 6 months project, 10-100 lines are more likely, and in an "eternal" software that is already mostly written, 0 is a perfectly fine number.

Appreciate the reply.

Re: -2000 Lines of Code (2004)

#43

Post by crpatino »

wdewind wrote: post #37
monochromatic wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> equally advantageous to both parties There ain't no such thing. Salary negotiations are pretty close to zero-sum.

The actual dollar value is usually literally zero sum, but if you have a family and need a $200k salary with specific benefits as a hard requirement it's going to be helpful to get that out of the way up front. On the same note, if you want a $200k salary and only make $180k it can be useful to say you are currently making $200k. So again, this moment can be advantageous to both parties.

No, please don't sugar coat it.

HR people do actually see current income as 'social proof' of your actual worth. This is not necessarily out of a desire to take advantage of employees, but they find it hard to justify to their bosses why they did no negociate a better deal.

I learned it the hard way, by trying to work part time (like 10hrs per week) while studying and then having employers unable to grasp that I was demanding a much higher salary because I was offering my undivided attention in a full time position. This was explained to me by a simpathetic (though probably naive) recruiter, who literally coached me to lie on my application so she could process me as a viable candidate.

I did not get that job anyways, but at least I learned to avoid mentioning the fact that I had been "working for peanuts" in the recent past.

Re: -2000 Lines of Code (2004)

#44

Post by brandonmenc »

mgkimsal wrote: post #23
wdewind wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be so literal about it. I used to get defensive about that question too, but the truth is they aren't asking you how much you are making, they are asking you to start the salary negotiation so they can get a feel for what it's going to take to hire you and describe you adequately to a hiring manager. It's just an opportunity for you both to ballpark the situation and eject early if there's going to be a wide di…

No... there are recruiters who are a lot more invasive and pushy (and a couple employers I've run across). "Proof of previous income" was required at one place I applied years back, and I've heard similar stories from colleagues. No, of course, I don't bother going forward in those situations. "What are you making now?" is crass. The good recruiters I've worked with phrased it as "what are your salary expectations?"…

> "Proof of previous income" was required at one place I applied years back

It's best to immediately walk away from a situation like this.

Re: -2000 Lines of Code (2004)

#45

Post by rhizome »

mgkimsal wrote: post #23
wdewind wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be so literal about it. I used to get defensive about that question too, but the truth is they aren't asking you how much you are making, they are asking you to start the salary negotiation so they can get a feel for what it's going to take to hire you and describe you adequately to a hiring manager. It's just an opportunity for you both to ballpark the situation and eject early if there's going to be a wide di…

No... there are recruiters who are a lot more invasive and pushy (and a couple employers I've run across). "Proof of previous income" was required at one place I applied years back, and I've heard similar stories from colleagues. No, of course, I don't bother going forward in those situations. "What are you making now?" is crass. The good recruiters I've worked with phrased it as "what are your salary expectations?"…

I've gotten "I need a number for us to continue" multiple times.

Re: -2000 Lines of Code (2004)

#46

Post by emidln »

avmich wrote: post #25
cpeterso wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

520,000 lines of code per year! :)

A good case to use code generators, I guess...

Are we counting the code my macros produce? As far as git is concerned I might be down a couple hundred to a couple thousand in a good week, but if we count macroexpansion, I'm rolling in the LoC.

Re: -2000 Lines of Code (2004)

#47

Post by fredkbloggs »

rhizome wrote: post #45
mgkimsal wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No... there are recruiters who are a lot more invasive and pushy (and a couple employers I've run across). "Proof of previous income" was required at one place I applied years back, and I've heard similar stories from colleagues. No, of course, I don't bother going forward in those situations. "What are you making now?" is crass. The good recruiters I've worked with phrased it as "what are your salary expectations?"…

I've gotten "I need a number for us to continue" multiple times.

> I've gotten "I need a number for us to continue" multiple times.

"Considering your obnoxious lack of professionalism and the fact that your approach is apparently acceptable to the company, I'm not sure there's any offer you could make that I'd be excited to accept. But everyone has his price, so write down $500,000 for now and I'll decide how much to increase it after I hear the rest of what you have to say."

Re: -2000 Lines of Code (2004)

#49

Post by fredkbloggs »

dheera wrote: post #38
pcl wrote: post #11

I wish the output from git diff used red for new lines and green for removed lines...

Stock market indicators in China are reversed in colour from the western world (up=red, down=green). Sometimes I wonder if Github really should be flipping the colours on diffs for Chinese language users for the sake of consistency.

To be fair to the Chinese, whether a price going up or down is alarming or encouraging depends on whether one wishes to buy or to sell.

Re: -2000 Lines of Code (2004)

#50

Post by fredkbloggs »

crpatino wrote: post #43
wdewind wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual dollar value is usually literally zero sum, but if you have a family and need a $200k salary with specific benefits as a hard requirement it's going to be helpful to get that out of the way up front. On the same note, if you want a $200k salary and only make $180k it can be useful to say you are currently making $200k. So again, this moment can be advantageous to both parties.

No, please don't sugar coat it. HR people do actually see current income as 'social proof' of your actual worth. This is not necessarily out of a desire to take advantage of employees, but they find it hard to justify to their bosses why they did no negociate a better deal. I learned it the hard way, by trying to work part time (like 10hrs per week) while studying and then having employers unable to grasp that I was…

It is, in fact, possible that some aspect of a negotiation can be beneficial to both parties, but not for the reasons the parent suggested.

If we assume that your minimum bid is in fact below their maximum offer, then the market should clear: you should get hired. Under such circumstances, anything preventing a successful conclusion to the negotiations is harmful to both parties, since there exists a price at which both sides would be satisfied that they're getting more value than they're giving. Therefore, anything eliminating or preventing such an obstacle from arising is beneficial to both parties.

The corollary is that employers who insist on "social proof" place themselves at a disadvantage; they're less able to hire, and the people they do hire will likely be inferior. They are giving up value every time they enter negotiations, not by overpaying but by failing to engage in beneficial transactions. Those hidden costs can be, and often are, far greater than overpaying by some small percentage on the transactions in which they do engage.

Post reply on HN