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Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

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Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#161

Post by gherkin0 »

cbsmith wrote: post #99
roymurdock wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boss: We introduced Hue back in 2012 w/ a plan to lose money the first 3 years developing the hub, subsidizing partners, and getting our product out in the market. Tell me we're seeing a positive ROI now. Hue PM: Hue is profitable, but only marginally so. Our strategy of making up the initial investment on $60 per bulb hardware is being undermined by cheap 3rd party lighting fixtures. Plus we're incurring costs respo…

That doesn't seem like a fair view of the analysis. If the real value was in the hub, and these other lights were getting a free ride on it, then the opportunity would be to charge more for the hub. What is far more likely to be the case is that the support costs around problems caused by random third party components messing with the Zigbee network were exceeding the value of providing that support, particularly whe…

It's a total dick move on Philips's part to "update" incompatibility into existing products that people already own and have spend money and effort to integrate. These people bought product with the expectation of compatibility, now they're out their investment because of Philips's selfish business decision.

Even they have elevated support costs, Philips's made their bed by offering compatibility in the first place for many years. If they want to remove it, they really should introduce a new model ("Introducing Hue 2.0: Now with less bulb compatibility!") and leave the existing customers unaffected.

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#162

Post by bjelkeman-again »

cynicalkane wrote: post #127
rizwank wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not believe this is true now given all the third party frameworks available.

Apple's EULA actually requires you to build iOS software on a Mac. Using a PC is not a legal option.

Breaking the EULA is not the same thing as doing something illegal.

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#163

Post by Sanddancer »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #70
someotheracct7 wrote: post #43

This is odd, but not catastrophic. If I understand right, Zigbee is open, so what's to stop the bulbs working with a third-party controller hub? Say, a Raspberry Pi with a Zigbee interface? Wonder if this is still relevant? http://www.everyhue.com/vanilla/discussion/141/getting-hue-t... That thread suggests it's possible to have Hue bulbs join third-party ZigBee networks.

Yes, you can do this. And for the most part you can control your lights from your own software. I was looking at the protocol using a HackRF One to see how easy or hard it would be to build a replacement hub controller. I don't know if there are any patent issues however, that would be something that you couldn't really code around.

It's an open standard, which Philips hypocritically helped write, so there shouldn't be any patent issues other than the normal ones. You can even get it online from http://www.zigbee.org/zigbee-for-developers/applicationstand... . It's clickwrapped, but rather extant.

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#164

Post by cubano »

Creating a new compatible hub now sounds like an ideal Kickstarter project, no?

Also, I can't help but wonder if UL issues may have influenced the decision too...just look at the current hoverboard fire issues with cheap Chinese manufacturing and I can at least speculate that they might be.

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#165

Post by kamaal »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #150
bsder wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boss will be promoted by then because profit went up 150% for two quarters.

It's funny how in today's corporations it is in manager's best interest to make decisions that are profitable short-term but bad for the company long-term - the manager will be there for a reward, but long gone by the time consequences come.

In my opinion this is the biggest fallout of an economy that doesn't reward loyalty.

If the company looks at the employee like a tissue to be used and thrown, why is it so surprising to receive the same treatment back.

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#166

Post by egypturnash »

gregmac wrote: post #48
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would strongly recommend that any home automation device you buy has a direct method that it can be interfaced with and programmed in a local way. If a device is only programmable by a web API, rule it out. You may also wish to consider looking for devices which are based on a switch, rather than a bulb. Controllable bulbs do not play nice with the state of physical light switches, and in the case of multi-bulb fix…

I never understood the desire to control lights without using a wall switch. I say this having had X10 and later Insteon installations in 3 different houses over the past 10 years. Even today, I have the ability to control nearly all the lights on the main floor of my house with an app on my phone. I actually use this feature maybe once or twice a year, being generous. Even if my phone is on me and already unlocked (…

It's not so much a desire as a work-around for the fact that smart bulbs need a trickle of power 24-7 so they can respond to external messages from timers/sensors/etc. The wall switch has to stay on, so you need to kludge up some other way to control it.

These kludges are slowly getting better: maybe you can get a menu bar app so you can control your lights from the computer, maybe your phone/tablet light app can stick some buttons in an Android widget or in the iOS notifications pulldown, there are even people trying to make switches that you can stick over the normal switches and hit to trigger light changes without having to hire/be an electrician who can replace the switches.

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#167

Post by drdaeman »

cynicalkane wrote: post #127
rizwank wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not believe this is true now given all the third party frameworks available.

Apple's EULA actually requires you to build iOS software on a Mac. Using a PC is not a legal option.

Had anyone ever tried to challenge this in a court?

Some jurisdictions have customer protection laws that say it's illegal to require purchase of some goods (or services) as a condition for purchase of other goods (or services). Don't know English legal terms for this, sorry.

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#168

Post by djrogers »

mdip wrote: post #35

I'll never understand why companies make such customer hostile decisions. I can't see any upside to this and I can't imagine what the discussion looked like when implementing this decision. My (admittedly cynical) guess is that it was one part "We're fielding a lot of support questions on products that aren't ours and our malfunctioning" and two parts "Our customers will be more motivated to buy Philips Hue products…

> The first argument is out the door because now they'll just get a lot of support questions around many more products that don't work.

I'm not so sure about that - I've owned Hue products for a while now and until this moment never knew that they supported any other lightbulbs. I'm guessing most of their other customers didn't either - this was sold to mainstream consumers, not HA geeks.

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#169

Post by ChuckMcM »

Sanddancer wrote: post #163
ChuckMcM wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can do this. And for the most part you can control your lights from your own software. I was looking at the protocol using a HackRF One to see how easy or hard it would be to build a replacement hub controller. I don't know if there are any patent issues however, that would be something that you couldn't really code around.

It's an open standard, which Philips hypocritically helped write, so there shouldn't be any patent issues other than the normal ones. You can even get it online from http://www.zigbee.org/zigbee-for-developers/applicationstand... . It's clickwrapped, but rather extant.

The same Phillips that sent out C&D letters to people who wrote software i2c implementations [1]. Their reputation precedes them.

[1[ http://www.piclist.com/techref/postbot.asp?by=thread&id=I2C+...

Re: Philips Hue blocks 3rd party lights

#170

Post by tehwebguy »

dperfect wrote: post #105

This problem isn't unique to Philips Hue, and I'm not sure Philips is necessarily a bad actor here. They are, after all, just acting in their best interest (and contrary to common belief, companies are self-interested; the customer's interests are important only so much as they serve the company's interests - for better or for worse). Perhaps the problem is more related to the ZigBee standard, or more specifically, w…

Removing features from something I already bought is bad acting every time.
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