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Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

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Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#71

Post by skybrian »

kozukumi wrote: post #26

Hmm this is a tough one. Firstly I should make it clear that my wife works in the games industry. She works on PC, Console and Mobile titles. She has mentioned several times how there is a lot of pressure put on developers and publishers to "catch the whales". They employ psychologists and gambling specialists to make games, mostly mobile but it is also creeping into PC and Console, super addictive. Personally I am o…

I think you've defined the problem better than the original post: what to do about whales?

Most people would guess that these are people with psychological problems who need help. But do we know that? Maybe they're billionaires and they're okay with it. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to work for anyone who is targeting whales, though.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#72

Post by daemin »

PaybackTony wrote: post #38

This is jealousy, at the core of it. Not just the gaming industry uses these tactics. I work in an industry that does that all the time (I hate it). Certain kinds of games shouldn't be regulated, though I would agree that creating fake profiles on social media in an attempt to gather more information from users should be regulated to some extent. At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself, are you in favor of pe…

Well there is actually a middle ground, where society (through te government) can make changes so that people are nudged to a better direction. (Check out UK's nudge unit.)

So even though people can smoke, drink, gamble - there should be some form of policy to limit or reduce the harm that comes from these activities.

This actually goes double for such free-to-play games with IAP as in some ways they are no better than plain old slot machines - or "pokies" as we call them in Australia. But since they are just "games" on "phones" they are not treated with the same rigor as other pure gambling machines.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#73

Post by vezzy-fnord »

Silhouette wrote: post #55
adrtessier wrote: post #12

> "We need to reign this stuff in. Its not just psychological warfare, but warfare where you, the customer, are woefully outgunned, and losing. Some people are losing catastrophically." I strongly disagree with this statement. I am very aware of the psychology behind marketing and advertising, and anyone with half an interest in it has probably read Vance Packard's The Hidden Persuaders , which was released, oh, 58 y…

Some people have better impulse control than others; it's not the state's job to regulate the impulses of their populaces, or regulate systems that know how to manipulate them. Out of genuine curiosity, do you feel the same about state intervention in other situations, away from gaming, that involve a more knowledgeable or deliberate party taking advantage of a less knowledgeable or deliberate one? For example, what…

Is it OK for bars or clubs to offer a happy hour early in the evening to get patrons going, then turn up the heat and make it hard to find water so those patrons keep ordering more drinks and getting more and more drunk throughout the evening?

You honestly believe we need a law against this? God forbid a restaurant owner offer any promotion whatsoever.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#74

Post by sandstrom »

I think what some are missing here is whom the regulation (of gambling, alcohol/tobacco advertising, lending regulation etc) is ment to protect.

Pulmonary physicians didn't need regulation to cease smoking[1], people with basic financial schooling probably won't get tricked by usury (which, interestingly, has been banned since medieval times but is now permitted in many countries), and so on.

If you're an educated, conscientious person you don't need this (and are sometimes needlessly constrained by it, which can be frustrating). But it was never for you.

It's for the struggling single-parent who would otherwise burn their paycheck on an online casino -- and get through the month with 300% payday loans.

[1] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.3322/canjclin.36.1.2/p...

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#75

Post by peterashford »

mikeash wrote: post #65
peterashford wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole free-to-play market is premised on exploiting the psychology of a few people with cash and very little self control ("whales"). As a game developer, I think it's pretty slimy.

I'm no fan of these games, but is it fundamentally different from, say, Harley-Davidson?

Yes. When HD advertises to you, you buy a bike and you're done. And you have an actual, existent bike. And you could sell it later should you feel like you made a mistake. With whales, they spend and spend and spend - way more than a Harley costs them. And what do they end up with? Sweet FA.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#76

Post by CyberDildonics »

jabgrabdthrow wrote: post #35
stefantalpalaru wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People know what pushes their buttons, too, and we have a name for it: interest. Not "manipulation". Certainly not "psychological warfare". So if people are interested in Ponzi schemes or magical remedies, the state should not interfere, right?

Those are fraud, not just "manipulation".

When the game is released I think there would be a better case for 'not fraud'.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#77

Post by rayiner »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #52
moonchrome wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Some people have better impulse control than others; it's not the state's job to regulate the impulses of their populaces, or regulate systems that know how to manipulate them. Individual freedom part of me would agree but in reality governments do this all the time and I can't say it's all bad either. A good example is drug control - while it's currently taken to the extreme there's no doubt in my mind that fully l…

there's no doubt in my mind that fully legalizing drugs would lead to a more volatile society Many hard drugs (including cocaine and heroin) were legal in the United States prior to the 1920s. To the best of my knowledge, there was no massive social breakdown as a result. The ultimate irony is that a major motivation for the criminalization of cocaine was, for poor rural whites, a fear that drugged up blacks would st…

The united States was very violent in the early 20th century and many blamed cocaine.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#78

Post by adrtessier »

RodericDay wrote: post #63
adrtessier wrote: post #12

> "We need to reign this stuff in. Its not just psychological warfare, but warfare where you, the customer, are woefully outgunned, and losing. Some people are losing catastrophically." I strongly disagree with this statement. I am very aware of the psychology behind marketing and advertising, and anyone with half an interest in it has probably read Vance Packard's The Hidden Persuaders , which was released, oh, 58 y…

> FWIW, I hate consumerism and advertising. I block ads everywhere, I hate big branded items, I don't know the last time I bought something from an ad. Just because I feel this way, I don't go around trying to violently force that opinion upon others by begging the state to do it for me. huh? this literally sounds like "fuck you, got mine" but spun as a benevolent positive, somehow. You had the education and the know…

> You had the education and the know-how to be able to learn to defend yourself from ads, and out of some sense of modesty, you're going to keep it to yourself?

I'm unsure how it is that you draw this as the conclusion. What am I keeping to myself? The OP's argument is about banning specific types of games because some people can't control themselves.

I believe there is a strong difference between asking the government to ban an action versus sharing information on the risks of an action. I've generally nothing against the government issuing required warnings on vices, assuming the information is scientifically accurate (e.g. the warnings on tobacco boxes, etc.)

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#79

Post by cwyers »

LukeB_UK wrote: post #30

A lot of people here seem to be missing the main point of this post. It's not about crowdfunding or advertising, it's about using hugely manipulative tactics within the games to get people to basically throw money at them. The reason they're called microtransactions is because they're small, usually priced at a point that's negligible. Using these tactics, they entice people to buy over and over again, each time the…

That point is really undermined by putting so much attention on Star Citizen, which raises all its money outside the game and raised a crapton of money before there was any game - trying to link crowdfunding to micropayments confuses the issue. Crowdfunded games don't exist yet and thus can't raise money soley through the sort of psychological manipulation he decries. The whole piece is either scattered and incoherent or fundentally dishonest. Or both.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#80

Post by pestaa »

brohoolio wrote: post #41

I was totally and completely addicted to WoW for two years. Almost lost my girlfriend, friends, etc. When I finally quit I had the shakes. Literally. One thing though is I've never saved more money than when I was playing WoW because I never went out. These newer games do seem to have a different financial model that exploits addiction in potentially a much more dangerous fashion.

I appreciate your honesty.
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