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After Capitalism?

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Re: After Capitalism?

#31

Post by [deleted] »

creshal wrote: post #26
vixen99 wrote: post #18

Nearly 1 billion people have been taken out of extreme poverty in 20 years - Economist Magazine. Harnessing the energy of people across the planet by letting them trade with each other has so clearly been a disaster for everyone, has it? Essentially, isn't this capitalism with all its fault lines? One way or another it can be got to work for everyone's advantage.

The article isn't lamenting capitalism, it's lamenting that we're leaving it behind and have no idea what to do next. > Nearly 1 billion people have been taken out of extreme poverty in 20 years But it has been done without generating the sort of full-time blue collar employment that is implied behind all sorts of economic policies around the globe. China has gone from feudalism to post-industrial robotization in one…

[deleted]

Re: After Capitalism?

#32

Post by creshal »

nixusg wrote: post #30
creshal wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article isn't lamenting capitalism, it's lamenting that we're leaving it behind and have no idea what to do next. > Nearly 1 billion people have been taken out of extreme poverty in 20 years But it has been done without generating the sort of full-time blue collar employment that is implied behind all sorts of economic policies around the globe. China has gone from feudalism to post-industrial robotization in one…

Lower birth rates? Short term economic pain of a graying population for a long term gain.

How does that help long-term? Let's say we, somehow, reduce the world's population to one billion. Great, so we only have one one seventh the workers to keep busy… but also only one seventh the market size. We're back to square one: Still the same unemployment rate, even if the total amount of unemployed is smaller.

Re: After Capitalism?

#33

Post by 1stop »

vixen99 wrote: post #18

Nearly 1 billion people have been taken out of extreme poverty in 20 years - Economist Magazine. Harnessing the energy of people across the planet by letting them trade with each other has so clearly been a disaster for everyone, has it? Essentially, isn't this capitalism with all its fault lines? One way or another it can be got to work for everyone's advantage.

I think you're missing the point. If I could summarise:

Capitalism generates capital. Yay for us, we now have lots of capital. But once you've generated all the capital, and maximised all the profits to the point of driving surplus value to 0. What then?

* Also a major nitpick, most of that billion were brought out of poverty in China in the 1950s at the peak of Maoism/Communism... so you're point is kind ironic, no? The majority of the remainder were also in China during DengXiao ping driven state run capitalism or "Socialism with Chinese Characteristics"... So even if you weren't missing the point, the point you are making is still very moot.

Re: After Capitalism?

#34

Post by Zirro »

creshal wrote: post #26
vixen99 wrote: post #18

Nearly 1 billion people have been taken out of extreme poverty in 20 years - Economist Magazine. Harnessing the energy of people across the planet by letting them trade with each other has so clearly been a disaster for everyone, has it? Essentially, isn't this capitalism with all its fault lines? One way or another it can be got to work for everyone's advantage.

The article isn't lamenting capitalism, it's lamenting that we're leaving it behind and have no idea what to do next. > Nearly 1 billion people have been taken out of extreme poverty in 20 years But it has been done without generating the sort of full-time blue collar employment that is implied behind all sorts of economic policies around the globe. China has gone from feudalism to post-industrial robotization in one…

Since you've already brought it up as "blabbing" - why do you dismiss basic income as a solution?

Re: After Capitalism?

#35

Post by vidarh »

nixusg wrote: post #30
creshal wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article isn't lamenting capitalism, it's lamenting that we're leaving it behind and have no idea what to do next. > Nearly 1 billion people have been taken out of extreme poverty in 20 years But it has been done without generating the sort of full-time blue collar employment that is implied behind all sorts of economic policies around the globe. China has gone from feudalism to post-industrial robotization in one…

Lower birth rates? Short term economic pain of a graying population for a long term gain.

While birth rates are lowering enough that the population based on current projections will start dropping in a few decades, UN projections also clearly indicate it will start increasing again soon enough, albeit at a slower rate.

To avoid that would take substantial further reductions in birth rates beyond that which is baked in based on current trends.

EDIT: Let me adjust this a bit. UNs World Population Prospects 2015 [1] says "Continued population growth until 2050 is almost inevitable, even if the decline of fertility accelerates." and their middle and top estimates shows continued growth until 2100, though rapidly shrinking growth. The low end estimate shows a reduction in the latter half of the century. Almost all of this growth is expected to be in developing countries, however.

[1] http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Publications/Files/Key_Findings_W...

Re: After Capitalism?

#36

Post by patrickaljord »

1stop wrote: post #33
vixen99 wrote: post #18

Nearly 1 billion people have been taken out of extreme poverty in 20 years - Economist Magazine. Harnessing the energy of people across the planet by letting them trade with each other has so clearly been a disaster for everyone, has it? Essentially, isn't this capitalism with all its fault lines? One way or another it can be got to work for everyone's advantage.

I think you're missing the point. If I could summarise: Capitalism generates capital. Yay for us, we now have lots of capital. But once you've generated all the capital, and maximised all the profits to the point of driving surplus value to 0. What then? * Also a major nitpick, most of that billion were brought out of poverty in China in the 1950s at the peak of Maoism/Communism... so you're point is kind ironic, no?…

> But once you've generated all the capital, and maximised all the profits to the point of driving surplus value to 0. What then?

You're assuming you will be able to keep this capital forever. History demonstrates that most of even the richest families don't stay such after 3 or 4 generations.

Ask any Family Office managing finances for HNW investors and they'll give you examples.

* Decreasing marginal utility of wealth.

* Difficulty investing as wealth increases. Capital accumulation lowers rates, incentivizing individuals to spend (h/t Reisman)

* Empathy and philanthropy (one can't just ignore this, it's human action all the same).

* The calculation problem builds in inefficiencies as organizations grow (h/t Peter Klein).

Intergenerational differences in ability and goals and the squandering of inheritances.

Entrepreneurship and innovation. Punctuated equilibrium (h/t Schumpeter).

Re: After Capitalism?

#37

Post by sebastianconcpt »

1stop wrote: post #33
vixen99 wrote: post #18

Nearly 1 billion people have been taken out of extreme poverty in 20 years - Economist Magazine. Harnessing the energy of people across the planet by letting them trade with each other has so clearly been a disaster for everyone, has it? Essentially, isn't this capitalism with all its fault lines? One way or another it can be got to work for everyone's advantage.

I think you're missing the point. If I could summarise: Capitalism generates capital. Yay for us, we now have lots of capital. But once you've generated all the capital, and maximised all the profits to the point of driving surplus value to 0. What then? * Also a major nitpick, most of that billion were brought out of poverty in China in the 1950s at the peak of Maoism/Communism... so you're point is kind ironic, no?…

All the profits? like in a zero-sum game?

Wealth creation through creativity, like we do every time, that's what we do next.

This article was wasted time

Re: After Capitalism?

#39

Post by 1stop »

patrickaljord wrote: post #36
1stop wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point. If I could summarise: Capitalism generates capital. Yay for us, we now have lots of capital. But once you've generated all the capital, and maximised all the profits to the point of driving surplus value to 0. What then? * Also a major nitpick, most of that billion were brought out of poverty in China in the 1950s at the peak of Maoism/Communism... so you're point is kind ironic, no?…

> But once you've generated all the capital, and maximised all the profits to the point of driving surplus value to 0. What then? You're assuming you will be able to keep this capital forever. History demonstrates that most of even the richest families don't stay such after 3 or 4 generations. Ask any Family Office managing finances for HNW investors and they'll give you examples. * Decreasing marginal utility of wea…

That doesn't actually matter to the point at hand. My point was we've got all the surplus value there is to be had.

The fact that we'll probably squander that too, or it will decrease in value, only strengthens the questions... so what do we do after that?

Re: After Capitalism?

#40

Post by Futurebot »

creshal wrote: post #26
vixen99 wrote: post #18

Nearly 1 billion people have been taken out of extreme poverty in 20 years - Economist Magazine. Harnessing the energy of people across the planet by letting them trade with each other has so clearly been a disaster for everyone, has it? Essentially, isn't this capitalism with all its fault lines? One way or another it can be got to work for everyone's advantage.

The article isn't lamenting capitalism, it's lamenting that we're leaving it behind and have no idea what to do next. > Nearly 1 billion people have been taken out of extreme poverty in 20 years But it has been done without generating the sort of full-time blue collar employment that is implied behind all sorts of economic policies around the globe. China has gone from feudalism to post-industrial robotization in one…

Arts, sports, and leisure are the most likely candidates. People will both create and enjoy code, music, drawing, digital art, memes, funny cat gifs, endless videos, etc. Sports probably need no additional explanation. Leisure will mean a great deal more time spent out in nature, walking city streets, focusing on relationships, etc.

Imagining this future doesn't seem too outre.

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