Richard Stallman on The Setup • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#51

Post by axod » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 2:44 PM UTC

weavejester wrote: post #49

axod wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Richard Stallman refusing to use a webbrowser making the world a better place? :/ It's just taking ideals to extremes for the sake of it.

As far as I'm aware, Stallman isn't refusing to use a web browser for ideological reasons. It's because: "Most of the time I do not have an Internet connection." Besides, I seem to recall he uses Emacs/W3 for viewing web pages (offline, downloaded via wget).

>> "To look at page I send mail to a demon which runs wget and mails the page back to me."

You have to admit that sounds slightly quirky? I assumed it was an attempt to maintain that his personal PC is free from any closed source software, since it's not even rendering websites, it's just receiving email.

Sorry, but to me it sounds like either someone who is so into ideals that they're cutting off their nose to spite their face, or someone who has simply failed to keep up with changes in technology.

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#52

Post by telemachos » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 2:52 PM UTC

djm wrote: post #36

First time I've come across the setup. Here are some interviews with a few other HN regulars: http://paul.graham.usesthis.com/ http://aaron.swartz.usesthis.com/ _why is listed on their mainpage too but his interview seems to have been removed

_why's link works fine: http://_why.usesthis.com/

Drawn and quirky (or precious, depending on your taste or mood) as normal for _why.

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#53

Post by pingswept » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 2:53 PM UTC

cschwarm wrote: post #20

rbanffy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you call beliefs, I call principles. It's nice to know he doesn't compromise them.

And what you call principles, I call dogmata.

Why not compromise and call them principles, just this once? Principles, dogma-- what's the difference, really?

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#54

Post by elblanco » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 2:56 PM UTC

sailormoon wrote: post #22

Ironic that the only laptop running free software from top to bottom is made in China. Pretty cool little computers they make too. Check out this: http://www.lemote.com/bencandy.php?fid=134&id=675 RMB¥1699, that's about AUD$295 or USD $265. Or if you prefer the iMac form factor: http://www.lemote.com/bencandy.php?fid=136&id=849 WTF is with the name of that PHP script though.

Right, apparently free software is more important than actual freedom in Stallman's mind.

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#55

Post by elblanco » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 3:00 PM UTC

weavejester wrote: post #30

axod wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that a nice trait to have? The world isn't perfect. It's certainly not black or white either. You have to compromise.

Often it's the people that refuse to compromise that make the world a better place. Do you think Martin Luther King should have compromised on his vision of racial equality? Whilst the civil rights movement is obviously far more important than the free software movement, the idea that ideals should not be compromised is at the core of both. Unlike, say, the BSD license, the GPL is a license that allows for no comprom…

I refuse to call it GNU/Linux. By pure lines of source it should be called X.org/Linux.

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#56

Post by elblanco » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 3:01 PM UTC

asb wrote: post #15

motters wrote: post #4

It sounds as if he operates in batch mode with regard to communication.

In 2007 at least, he opted to use a demon to email him pages rather than browse the web: For personal reasons, I do not browse the web from my computer. (I also have not net connection much of the time.) To look at page I send mail to a demon which runs wget and mails the page back to me. It is very efficient use of my time, but it is slow in real time. http://lwn.net/Articles/262570/

He really is >this< close to being certifiable.

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#57

Post by elblanco » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 3:07 PM UTC

sfk wrote: post #26

axod wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free software existed before the GPL. Pretty sure linux would still have happened without it. People are moving to a web based architecture all the time. The amount of software people actually download and install is reducing, so to some extent the whole idea of OSS for most people (I believe) is becoming less important. Meanwhile Richard Stallman doesn't even use the web. I just don't see it as that relevant anymore…

The (A)GPL is still very relevant. The whole point of free software (in the GNU sense) is that you should have complete access to the sources of a software system. In the case of a web application, this includes server side software. No matter what some vocal AGPL opponents here say, this opinion is not exclusively held by fundamentalists: http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=15855

This is true,

I think RMS is as close to certifiable as one can get, but the point of having source available for inspection is a very important one in certain contexts. A quick example, voting machines, for quite a while the electronic voting machine sources were completely closed and the companies fought in court from having to reveal the source. When the source was finally reviewed it was found to be a mess and could possibly turn an election one way or the other.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/135461/diebold_voting_machine...

This is one of those areas where Freedom and Free Software intersect in a way where Stallman's philosophy makes a heck of a lot of sense.

On the flip side, not browsing the web for "personal reasons" sounds like somebody who also has tin foil blocking all their windows.

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#58

Post by krobertson » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 3:20 PM UTC

bitdiddle wrote: post #35

axod wrote: post #19

I don't understand the god like status given to this guy. He's clearly crazy and from a whole other world than the one real people live in. Who really cares if their BIOS is open source or not? Why does it matter? Are the designs used to make his laptop case open source as well? I doubt it.

Oh don't be silly, "real people"? Richard Stallman is as real as it gets. He's a decent programmer from what I can tell from emacs. Note that there is a distinction between open source and free software. I think it's important to not conflate the two, which I see a lot these days (in the real world :) I predict 500 years from now people will remember him. They won't remember Bill Gates. Without googling try to recall…

If you go up to any person on the street today and ask who Bill Gates is, they'll more than likely know who. You average person would have no idea who Richard Stallman.

If your average person doesn't know who he is today, I doubt that'll change to being more noteworthy in 500 years.

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#59

Post by axod » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 3:21 PM UTC

idiopathic wrote: post #45

axod wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "it is insanely convenient and easy to lock-in users and restrict freedoms." I agree, but is that really a bad thing? We all have to make money somehow. I'd rather website owners had real incentive to please their users, and being able to make money is a good incentive. I don't see how open source can really be relevant on the web. If facebook want to do something to drive users away, or ristrict users freedom, th…

With the (welcome) move to web architecture, free software is not as important as free data, i.e. the freedom to move your data to another provider. We may all be slaves, but we should have the freedom to choose our master. Like you, I would also rather that website owners had real incentives to please their users. I disagree on the solution: data lock-in _removes_ the website owner's incentive, instead they can just…

Good point, and I agree. People should always be free to get at the data they have on a website, and move to an alternative website. That's certainly something worth fighting for.

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#60

Post by pg » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 3:26 PM UTC

krobertson wrote: post #58

bitdiddle wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh don't be silly, "real people"? Richard Stallman is as real as it gets. He's a decent programmer from what I can tell from emacs. Note that there is a distinction between open source and free software. I think it's important to not conflate the two, which I see a lot these days (in the real world :) I predict 500 years from now people will remember him. They won't remember Bill Gates. Without googling try to recall…

If you go up to any person on the street today and ask who Bill Gates is, they'll more than likely know who. You average person would have no idea who Richard Stallman. If your average person doesn't know who he is today, I doubt that'll change to being more noteworthy in 500 years.

The first part is true, but in general the second part is false; in general, there is a big difference between the people who are most famous in their lifetimes and those who are most famous later from that period.