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Tell HN: I spend so much time solving problems I feel like giving up

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Re: Tell HN: I spend so much time solving problems I feel like giving up

#31

Post by johansch »

_cudgel wrote: post #22
throwaway000020 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The paradox is that IMO the simplest way forward is to use the most modern tools. The modern tools and languages are generally there to make things easier. The trouble is that you need to learn those tools and languages before you can get to do it the easy way. For example, I really can't afford to program with any JavaScript language except ES2015 - I just don't have time to try to understand all the weird idiosyncr…

The paradox is that IMO the simplest way forward is... I feel like this statement is the crux of the issue. Have you considered that your opinion is simply wrong?

OP: It hurts so much when I run into walls.

Everyone else: Stop running into walls then.

OP: But they are so shiny. I think running into them is the best way forward for me. Please keep me a trick that allows me to run into them without pain.

Everyone else: Eh..

Re: Tell HN: I spend so much time solving problems I feel like giving up

#32

Post by metasean »

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Relevant Quotes (Sometimes these help me push through)

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> I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~~ Thomas A. Edison

> A failure is not always a mistake, it may simply be the best one can do under the circumstances. The real mistake is to stop trying. ~~ B. F. Skinner

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Actual Advice

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Based on your question and comments, I'd actually suggest you reach out to your friends in the community who know more about the tools that you think you need. They might be able and willing to get you up and running with those tools, so that you can move forward.

For example, I'm fairly junior, but comfortable with testing once there's a framework in place. I've been through this enough that I've reached the point where I can get a basic Jasmine or Mocha framework up and running on my own, but recently ran into a problem where I needed more than a basic set-up. I mentioned it to a coworker and he said I needed Webpack. When I expressed concern about spending time learning and setting up Webpack, instead of working on my application code, he volunteered to get Webpack in place. As I learn more about Webpack, the process of setting it up for my next app should be less intimidating.

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Other Thoughts

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I love this meme - http://i.imgur.com/5mAUQj2.jpg - If you're a programmer, you've certainly experienced both states. While I think I run about a 1:1000 ratio, when I've spent a significant amount of time on the right, I try to remember the sensation of being on the left and I know that each mistake is one less mistake I can make and therefore moving me toward the left.

And one last, very relevant quote...

> Do not fear mistakes. You will know failure. Continue to reach out. ~~ Benjamin Franklin

[edited for formatting]

Re: Tell HN: I spend so much time solving problems I feel like giving up

#34

Post by ksenzee »

All that "modern" tooling is simply there to solve problems people have encountered. Give yourself a chance to experience the problems first, before you go adopting everyone else's solution to those problems. Just write some plain old code that works.

Re: Tell HN: I spend so much time solving problems I feel like giving up

#36

Post by jryan49 »

throwaway000020 wrote: post #21
davidbanham wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I build real applications out of real bits and pieces in a modern javascript stack. I do it for a living, have done for a while, and manage a team of people in a company that does it. Don't get hung up on tooling. Things like babel, webpack, ORMs, graphQL, gulp, react, redux, etc etc etc. They're all useful things that have a place in the world. If you try to grok all of them all at once you'll send yourself insane.…

The paradox is that IMO the simplest way forward is to use the most modern tools. The modern tools and languages are generally there to make things easier. The trouble is that you need to learn those tools and languages before you can get to do it the easy way. For example, I really can't afford to program with any JavaScript language except ES2015 - I just don't have time to try to understand all the weird idiosyncr…

Bleeding edge tools have the drawback of people not fully knowing their flaws and drawbacks.

Re: Tell HN: I spend so much time solving problems I feel like giving up

#37

Post by facepalm »

There was a link to a programming advent calendar on HN a while ago: http://adventofcode.com

Solve some of those puzzles once in a while, no tooling necessary. Or if they are too easy, go to project Euler.

I also feel the same frustration of JS tooling. It's just not a lot of fun to go through so many steps before you can actually start coding. I hope it gets better once the basic setup works.

Re: Tell HN: I spend so much time solving problems I feel like giving up

#38

Post by timr »

throwaway000020 wrote: post #12
hyuuu wrote: post #5

I know exactly where you coming from, ESPECIALLY if you are in the javascript ecosystem. There are a lot of gaps in the whole flow, from what you have mentioned, build tools, frameworks, standards, architecture (flux? mvc?) Personally, I would suggest, to go at it one at a time. The reason being, these "things" (build tools, frameworks, etc) are there to solve specific problems. If you don't have that problem, then y…

Yes I am in the JavaScript ecosystem. I feel like I'm trying to escape from an Amazonian jungle of errors and things that don't work, trying to find a path that appears and disappears and sometimes is trodden by others and sometimes grown over, always with thorns and strangle vines, dead ends, thousand foot waterfall roadblocks. My food is running out and my feet hurt and by day the sun burns and at night there are t…

Speaking as someone with a lot (20+ years) of dev experience, I highly recommend that you switch to a more mature language ecosystem. Other than the fact that it's in every browser, javascript is a horrible place to learn how to code.

Javascript development is a total mess. Even very experienced people spend a ton of time trying to navigate that ever-shifting terrain. It's also a very primitive, clumsy language, missing the most basic tools that a developer might want (e.g. first-class includes and packages, for starters). To top it off, in my experience, the average JavaScript developer is quite inexperienced. The good examples of javascript code are outnumbered 100:1 by bad examples.

If you're doing web dev, Ruby and Python are good places to start. Pick a language where there are a core set of experienced leaders who have been working for years, and there's a small set of "right" ways to do things.

Re: Tell HN: I spend so much time solving problems I feel like giving up

#39

Post by gt565k »

Just use Rails with Heroku for deployments. You can deploy a small instance for free on Heroku.

It'll save you the headache if configuring and setting up everything, and with a feature complete framework like Rails, you'll hit the ground running and be cranking out features in no time.

Re: Tell HN: I spend so much time solving problems I feel like giving up

#40

Post by thom »

I call this 'feeding the machine'. There's the thing you want to do, the interesting, valuable, real-world problem you're trying to solve. But you're using a library, that has a dependency, that doesn't build on your machine, because of your version of the compiler, and the new version isn't in your package repository, so you have to download and build it, but your version of readline is wrong and so on and so on. You're feeding the machine constantly, when you feel that it's supposed to be working for you.

It sucks, but it doesn't end. Every once in a while you're be in a nice place where you're using familiar tools and libraries and doing familiar work, but every new project and technology brings potential new demands to feed the machine.

You can have a long, happy and prosperous career working with a single stack that someone has made work on your OS of choice, but if you don't enjoy feeding the machine, there is a ceiling on your flexibility and problem solving ability.

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