Japanese government dismantles freedom of the press • Hacker News Board

Re: Japanese government dismantles freedom of the press

#21

Post by mahranch » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 9:29 PM UTC

xlm1717 wrote: post #17

ilurk wrote: post #13

I feel saddened by this this. But at the same time I see Japan in a very complicated situation with China expanding its maritime influence in the region. If it doesn't flex its military muscle (needing the secracy for it) it may find itself in a vulnerable situation against China. Although on the other hand it really doesn't stand a chance against China's nuclear arsenal. If China used a nuclear warhead would the US…

What makes it even harder to understand is that it was basically the US that forced Japan to demilitarize after WW2. Now we want to ask them to fight our wars? The possible cover for not saying "we're preparing for an eventual conflict with China" is even more troubling. It was previously the case that the US would handle Japan's defense and the Self Defense Forces would, of course, provide self-defense. Are they pla…

> the US that forced Japan to demilitarize after WW2. Now we want to ask them to fight our wars?

To be fair, the U.S has literally been asking Japan to change its constitution since 1968. They've been trying to get them to be actual military allies for 50 years now. Understandably, Japan has been perfectly fine with the status quo. And who can blame them? They had Uncle Sam footing their defense bill -- at least, until recently. Now Japan has to pay the U.S for that protection in a cost sharing agreement. The U.S wanted to close up shop and leave. They also wanted to leave South Korea as well, believe it or not. Both countries now pay the U.S to be there.

Re: Japanese government dismantles freedom of the press

#22

Post by pippy » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 9:30 PM UTC

It's happening in New Zealand to a similar extent. This current government is raiding journalists homes who publish things they don't want[1] [2]. Even more worryingly the government recently bailed out the other major broadcasting company, and replaced the CEO with a friend of the prime minister. It didn't take long before journalists who were sometimes critical of the government were replaced [3].

1 https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/hager-police-rai...

2 http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/290989/police-raid-du...

3 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_i...

Re: Japanese government dismantles freedom of the press

#23

Post by krapp » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 9:36 PM UTC

xlm1717 wrote: post #17

ilurk wrote: post #13

I feel saddened by this this. But at the same time I see Japan in a very complicated situation with China expanding its maritime influence in the region. If it doesn't flex its military muscle (needing the secracy for it) it may find itself in a vulnerable situation against China. Although on the other hand it really doesn't stand a chance against China's nuclear arsenal. If China used a nuclear warhead would the US…

What makes it even harder to understand is that it was basically the US that forced Japan to demilitarize after WW2. Now we want to ask them to fight our wars? The possible cover for not saying "we're preparing for an eventual conflict with China" is even more troubling. It was previously the case that the US would handle Japan's defense and the Self Defense Forces would, of course, provide self-defense. Are they pla…

> What makes it even harder to understand is that it was basically the US that forced Japan to demilitarize after WW2. Now we want to ask them to fight our wars?

That was 70 years ago - the world has changed a lot in that time.

Re: Japanese government dismantles freedom of the press

#24

Post by Cyberdog » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 9:49 PM UTC

mahranch wrote: post #21

xlm1717 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes it even harder to understand is that it was basically the US that forced Japan to demilitarize after WW2. Now we want to ask them to fight our wars? The possible cover for not saying "we're preparing for an eventual conflict with China" is even more troubling. It was previously the case that the US would handle Japan's defense and the Self Defense Forces would, of course, provide self-defense. Are they pla…

> the US that forced Japan to demilitarize after WW2. Now we want to ask them to fight our wars? To be fair, the U.S has literally been asking Japan to change its constitution since 1968. They've been trying to get them to be actual military allies for 50 years now. Understandably, Japan has been perfectly fine with the status quo. And who can blame them? They had Uncle Sam footing their defense bill -- at least, unt…

> To be fair, the U.S has literally been asking Japan to change its constitution since 1968. They've been trying to get them to be actual military allies for 50 years now.

Before that, actually. As early as the late 1940s, once it became clear that the Cold War was going to be a thing, the US was leaning on Japan to beef up militarily in the hopes of countering Soviet influence in the area. Savvy politicians in the era were not necessarily pacifist, but they could say "gee, sorry guys, but the Article 9 that you put in our constitution won't let us. Guess you'll have to keep your bases here and help defend us from those darn Soviets yourselves," then throw the money they saved not having to field a military towards economic development instead.

Re: Japanese government dismantles freedom of the press

#25

Post by hasenj » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 9:51 PM UTC

SwimAway wrote: post #7

crimsonalucard wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't blame the united states for everything. Totally unlike the situation described in the article, I can assure you that Americans have all the freedom in the world to criticize the government. We are fortunate in that regard.

Fortunate? Freedom of speech (et al.) is a birthright, NOT a privilege. If only the people of Japan stood up for their rights..

The difference between a right and a privilege seems to be a matter of definition ..

Re: Japanese government dismantles freedom of the press

#26

Post by hasenj » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 9:52 PM UTC

crimsonalucard wrote: post #3

pm24601 wrote: post #2

Once again the US exporting "corporate democracy"

Don't blame the united states for everything. Totally unlike the situation described in the article, I can assure you that Americans have all the freedom in the world to criticize the government. We are fortunate in that regard.

To his credit, the article does mention:

> For many years, Washington’s Japan-handlers have pressed Tokyo to introduce repressive legislation to protect secrets concerning the US-Japan security alliance

Re: Japanese government dismantles freedom of the press

#27

Post by crusso » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 10:21 PM UTC

ilurk wrote: post #13

I feel saddened by this this. But at the same time I see Japan in a very complicated situation with China expanding its maritime influence in the region. If it doesn't flex its military muscle (needing the secracy for it) it may find itself in a vulnerable situation against China. Although on the other hand it really doesn't stand a chance against China's nuclear arsenal. If China used a nuclear warhead would the US…

You bring up a good point, but Japan could beef up its military defenses without also shutting down the press. You'd think that the USA of all countries could be clear about that distinction and urge our ally to maintain a free press while also endorsing their participation in military operations.

Re: Japanese government dismantles freedom of the press

#28

Post by crusso » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 10:25 PM UTC

laotzu wrote: post #10

crimsonalucard wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't blame the united states for everything. Totally unlike the situation described in the article, I can assure you that Americans have all the freedom in the world to criticize the government. We are fortunate in that regard.

>Totally unlike the situation described in the article, I can assure you that Americans have all the freedom in the world to criticize the government. I'm assuming you have not studied what happened to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., the last American of his level of influence to fundamentally criticize the government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#FBI_an...

Yes, and much more recently we had the IRS stifling political groups that oppose the current administration.

But there's a difference between government stifling of speech illegally and government stifling of speech legally. At least with the former there are legal avenues that can be pursued to correct the situation.

Re: Japanese government dismantles freedom of the press

#29

Post by mirimir » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 10:30 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #14

Retric wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On it's own it's not a big deal, but you don't control 320 million people doing just one thing. So, the surprising thing is not that it works, but that nobody thinks of it in terms of free speech. After all, of course news organizations will chase profits so access becomes a useful tool. PS: Press releases are not just a means of corporations using lazy reporters to spread there message.

I don't think it's entirely fair to characterize Americans as being "controlled" by the media or the government. If the president (Obama in particular) had that much power to influence popular opinion through propaganda, we would have an actual national healthcare plan right now.

What's the basis for believing that President Obama wanted an "actual national healthcare plan"? Did he get negligible funding from the health insurance sector?

Re: Japanese government dismantles freedom of the press

#30

Post by cuckcuckspruce » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 10:39 PM UTC

crusso wrote: post #28

laotzu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Totally unlike the situation described in the article, I can assure you that Americans have all the freedom in the world to criticize the government. I'm assuming you have not studied what happened to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., the last American of his level of influence to fundamentally criticize the government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#FBI_an...

Yes, and much more recently we had the IRS stifling political groups that oppose the current administration. But there's a difference between government stifling of speech illegally and government stifling of speech legally. At least with the former there are legal avenues that can be pursued to correct the situation.

There's not much difference to the person being stifled, at least, not initially.

Yes, you can litigate absurdly expensive court battles (assuming the government allows itself to be sued), have your voice silenced for the years and years your case takes to work its way through the courts, and then, assuming you win, finally get to say what you want a whole decade or more after the fact.

Legal avenues are great like that for people that want to delay, distract, and disrupt.