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I went to help at Calais’s Jungle refugee camp – and what I saw haunts me

theguardian.com

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Re: I went to help at Calais’s Jungle refugee camp – and what I saw haunts me

#11

Post by NLips »

nobody_nowhere wrote: post #4
klunger wrote: post #2

This article skirts around the critical point that these are not actually refugees. They may have started their journey as a refugee, escaping some horrific conditions in their home country. But then, they traveled through many European safe countries where they could (legally, should) have applied for asylum. And yet, they deliberately chose not to for whatever reason. Now that they are in Calais, they choose to sta…

How does failing to apply for asylum make them no longer refugees? What do they become by your reasoning?

They are people who have successfully made it to a safe country. They are not in the camp because they are refugees fleeing danger, but because they specifically want to get to the UK. Whether or not that is reasonable (e.g. because of family or other reasons) is beside the point of 'are they refugees fleeing danger?'

Re: I went to help at Calais’s Jungle refugee camp – and what I saw haunts me

#12

Post by lumberjack »

zzalpha wrote: post #3
klunger wrote: post #2

This article skirts around the critical point that these are not actually refugees. They may have started their journey as a refugee, escaping some horrific conditions in their home country. But then, they traveled through many European safe countries where they could (legally, should) have applied for asylum. And yet, they deliberately chose not to for whatever reason. Now that they are in Calais, they choose to sta…

Wait wait wait. So are you saying these people deserve it and that the government is right to allow these folks to freeze and starve? I just want to be clear on your position, here. Because, to be blunt, on its face it seems pretty monstrous.

Every luxury you bought could have fed a poor starving family in India for months, maybe even years or decades. It could have funded live saving medical treatment for many people who could not afford it. And yet you chose to buy that iPhone6 or BMW or the bigger house. That's monstrous.

You're not morally superior to any of us first worlders. We enjoy our privilege.

Re: I went to help at Calais’s Jungle refugee camp – and what I saw haunts me

#13

Post by kaitai »

kzhahou wrote: post #8
zzalpha wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait wait wait. So are you saying these people deserve it and that the government is right to allow these folks to freeze and starve? I just want to be clear on your position, here. Because, to be blunt, on its face it seems pretty monstrous.

He said there are resources available to help, but for whatever reason these people don't use them. Monstrous?

Not quite. He said there are rules they should have followed, which might have lead them to resources available. Since they didn't follow the rules, there are not resources.

I don't think they can just go back to a previous country of entry into the EU and then get resources magically.

Re: I went to help at Calais’s Jungle refugee camp – and what I saw haunts me

#14

Post by Joeboy »

NLips wrote: post #11
nobody_nowhere wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does failing to apply for asylum make them no longer refugees? What do they become by your reasoning?

They are people who have successfully made it to a safe country. They are not in the camp because they are refugees fleeing danger, but because they specifically want to get to the UK. Whether or not that is reasonable (e.g. because of family or other reasons) is beside the point of 'are they refugees fleeing danger?'

> because of family or other reasons

Another reason would be speaking English and not French. I would really rather not have to apply for asylum in a language I don't speak.

And of course if they're fleeing danger and their asylum application is unsafe, then they are unsafe.

Re: I went to help at Calais’s Jungle refugee camp – and what I saw haunts me

#15

Post by seivan »

ptaffs wrote: post #5
klunger wrote: post #2

This article skirts around the critical point that these are not actually refugees. They may have started their journey as a refugee, escaping some horrific conditions in their home country. But then, they traveled through many European safe countries where they could (legally, should) have applied for asylum. And yet, they deliberately chose not to for whatever reason. Now that they are in Calais, they choose to sta…

Your response sounds super unsympathetic, but your side note hints at some actual understanding of the situation. Briefly, what should be happening?

You don't have to be sympathetic to be factual. It's not wrong to be unsympathetic and has no bearing of the person in question commenting the refugee situation.

Sympathy, like Willpower is a commodity that can run out. Be careful on what you use it on.

Re: I went to help at Calais’s Jungle refugee camp – and what I saw haunts me

#16

Post by seivan »

zzalpha wrote: post #3
klunger wrote: post #2

This article skirts around the critical point that these are not actually refugees. They may have started their journey as a refugee, escaping some horrific conditions in their home country. But then, they traveled through many European safe countries where they could (legally, should) have applied for asylum. And yet, they deliberately chose not to for whatever reason. Now that they are in Calais, they choose to sta…

Wait wait wait. So are you saying these people deserve it and that the government is right to allow these folks to freeze and starve? I just want to be clear on your position, here. Because, to be blunt, on its face it seems pretty monstrous.

There are millions starving in Syria vs thousands who managed to get out of ISIS and Assads bombings into Calais.

Right now the UN is low on money. What would you do? Keep in mind resources are finite and the resources to help per person is cheaper closer to Syria.

Re: I went to help at Calais’s Jungle refugee camp – and what I saw haunts me

#17

Post by jsprogrammer »

kzhahou wrote: post #8
zzalpha wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait wait wait. So are you saying these people deserve it and that the government is right to allow these folks to freeze and starve? I just want to be clear on your position, here. Because, to be blunt, on its face it seems pretty monstrous.

He said there are resources available to help, but for whatever reason these people don't use them. Monstrous?

The commenter said:

>they deliberately chose not to for whatever reason

This would imply that these people were fully aware of all of their options, which is probably not the case. Many languages are used in Europe and it is doubtful that the people in Calais know all or even most of those languages.

Deliberate choice requires full knowledge. The commenter did not establish that these people have full knowledge of their situation.

Edit: Ah, the anon-downmodders have arrived.

Re: I went to help at Calais’s Jungle refugee camp – and what I saw haunts me

#18

Post by mturmon »

yodsanklai wrote: post #9

I recently read an interesting comment on politics.stackexchange.com that gives some insight about this situation. http://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/8460/why-is-the-...

Thanks. Actually some solid info there.

Re: I went to help at Calais’s Jungle refugee camp – and what I saw haunts me

#19

Post by vlehto »

ptaffs wrote: post #5
klunger wrote: post #2

This article skirts around the critical point that these are not actually refugees. They may have started their journey as a refugee, escaping some horrific conditions in their home country. But then, they traveled through many European safe countries where they could (legally, should) have applied for asylum. And yet, they deliberately chose not to for whatever reason. Now that they are in Calais, they choose to sta…

Your response sounds super unsympathetic, but your side note hints at some actual understanding of the situation. Briefly, what should be happening?

I find it deeply disturbing, that comment dealing with systemic problem is judged by apparent feelings of the commenter.
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