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Most violence in the world is motivated by moral sentiments

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Re: Most violence in the world is motivated by moral sentiments

#11

Post by hackuser »

Some personal philosophy (as if the Internet needs more):

I always watch out for the dogmatic idealogues, the ones without moderation. You can identify them when they say that the welfare of others, often including their lives, should be sacrificed to the idealogue's cause - and of course the others should have no say in it.

Pragmatism and humility are the wisest forms of morality. There should always be something higher than your ideals and goals, either the ideal of other people's lives and welfare, or their self-determination (whether or not you agree with their opinions), or your humility: Unless you are God, you should hesitate to sacrifice others based on your judgement. For me, that's also the philosophical foundation of democracy.

Re: Most violence in the world is motivated by moral sentiments

#12

Post by js8 »

dnautics wrote: post #3

What is the opposing hypothesis here? That violence happens in a morally neutral setting? How would you define morally neutral? Could you make a claim, for example, that a bank robber is motivated by morality (the bank robber believes that robbing the bank is the morally correct thing to do - to redistribute wealth to himself?) Under what circumstances would that NOT be the case? Would the bank robber have to say, "w…

I think opposing hypothesis is that violence is in some form a more primitive behavior driven by our emotions or instincts (by ego and id, if you will), and only our moral sense (our rational superego) keeps it in check.

I recently submitted this article which makes this distinction: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22830471-000-syndrome...

Re: Most violence in the world is motivated by moral sentiments

#13

Post by russnewcomer »

dnautics wrote: post #3

What is the opposing hypothesis here? That violence happens in a morally neutral setting? How would you define morally neutral? Could you make a claim, for example, that a bank robber is motivated by morality (the bank robber believes that robbing the bank is the morally correct thing to do - to redistribute wealth to himself?) Under what circumstances would that NOT be the case? Would the bank robber have to say, "w…

I'd guess that the opposing hypothesis would be that violence is economically /politically/religiously motivated. Maybe thought of as extrinsic versus intrinsic motivation?

Re: Most violence in the world is motivated by moral sentiments

#14

Post by [deleted] »

gutnor wrote: post #7
Xcelerate wrote: post #2

I believe the author's hypothesis is probably correct. It seems the only way to avoid the "well my case is different; violence is justified in this situation because..."-bias is to instill or promote a common moral that "violence is not okay – ever". It's the only way you can be sure that you're not falling into the same biases that our "enemies" have fallen into. The more I learn about cognitive biases, the more I t…

> promote a common moral that "violence is not okay – ever" I guess that's generally was is tried in the Western world. Especially (marginally more) in Europe, where even being in the army is not as regarded as in the US, and there is nowhere the same support for the troops even when deployed. But then all of that is drown in a sea of entertainment, the majority of which not only promote virtuous violent reaction, bu…

[deleted]

Re: Most violence in the world is motivated by moral sentiments

#16

Post by slr555 »

When I was a theatre student a thousand years ago my teachers used to say every character you play feels like they have the gods on their side. Bad guys (with the possible exception of Iago) generally don't go around thinking "today I'm going to be particularly evil". They think what they are doing is right and will make the world better in some way. That is the challenge with moral relativism, people are very good at rationalizing their violence.

Re: Most violence in the world is motivated by moral sentiments

#17

Post by sp332 »

dnautics wrote: post #3

What is the opposing hypothesis here? That violence happens in a morally neutral setting? How would you define morally neutral? Could you make a claim, for example, that a bank robber is motivated by morality (the bank robber believes that robbing the bank is the morally correct thing to do - to redistribute wealth to himself?) Under what circumstances would that NOT be the case? Would the bank robber have to say, "w…

Violence could take place in a moral vacuum. Killers just do what they feel like, take what they want, kill randomly or whoever gets in their way. Or, the morality of the situation might be of some concern, but the killing would be motivated by something else, like emotions or practical considerations.

Re: Most violence in the world is motivated by moral sentiments

#18

Post by js8 »

fein wrote: post #9

> because most gun violence is not committed by people with mental health problems. Rather, it is committed by people who feel they are morally right in committing that act. Is there a reason that delusions of morality don't count as a mental health issue? I don't see these things being mutually exclusive.

> Is there a reason that delusions of morality don't count as a mental health issue?

Yes. It's a dangerous line to cross. For example, in some communist countries, people who were dissidents were considered to be mentally ill (and put into institutions), because who in their right mind would oppose communism? One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest pretty much deals with a similar dilemma.

Re: Most violence in the world is motivated by moral sentiments

#20

Post by thatswrong0 »

fein wrote: post #9

> because most gun violence is not committed by people with mental health problems. Rather, it is committed by people who feel they are morally right in committing that act. Is there a reason that delusions of morality don't count as a mental health issue? I don't see these things being mutually exclusive.

Let's say you grow up in a poor community where murders happen often but are not often solved. You don't trust the police to serve justice to those who have wronged you. You notice that many of your neighbors solve their problems themselves - by fighting, threatening, killing. People often heckle you because you try to not fight back when people pick on you - there's a culture of toughness and honor all around you.

Now someone wrongs you - let's say they hurt your significant other. Are you mentally ill for wanting to serve what you think is justice?

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