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Who Y Combinator Companies Want

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Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#531

Post by bluecalm »

The discussion about interviews comes down to a fact that if you setup your interview as a test where you position yourself as a chooser you will attract people who need you more than you need them. The best people are going to pass as they have enough options elsewhere.

For example I would be very happy to interview for Google 2 years ago and endure the process. Today I could sit with them for an hour and talk about stuff while sipping coffee. I have more opportunities than I can pursue anyway so spending hours solving mazes like some kind of a lab rat is not something I am going to spend my time on.

I am not a top expert in what I do but I can write and ship code. People like me (and especially ones better than me) will just not show up for your "process". Either you pursue them or you won't meet them. You will only get people for whom you are so attractive an option that they are willing to donate several hours or a whole day to have a low % shot. Those will not be the best programmers as the idea of paying to get evaluated is not something people with options entertain.

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#532

Post by jerf »

jholman wrote: post #409
swalsh wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"whiteboard hazing" there are two types of whiteboarding questions. The kind that's a perfectly reasonable thing to ask (i've had people ask me to develop some simple system... which I think is reasonable, because i'll do that as part of the job) but then there's the solve x algorithm questions. Which ultimately is an exercise in memorization. At this point I've just accepted that i'll have to do that.

The best argument for whiteboard algorithm questions is that they (to some degree) filter out people who think that whiteboard questions are "an exercise in memorization". I mean, whether or not the company actually values the underlying non-memorization skill is another question (as someone who is very strong in that skill, I think that most companies/roles do not have a use for that, and should not test for that).…

I say this every so often and get blasted for it, but... if you don't want to whiteboard code in an interview, bring your development environment with you. It's at least worth a try.

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#533

Post by TheCoelacanth »

lsc wrote: post #515
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that "cultural fit" means a different thing at every different company, so it would have to be proven to be discriminatory on a case-by-case basis. That takes too much work, so it doesn't happen very often. IQ tests are well known to have a disparate impact on some protected classes, so you are treading on extremely thin ice to use one.

>IQ tests are well known to have a disparate impact on some protected classes, so you are treading on extremely thin ice to use one. Really? I mean, I know that the racists have been going on about how some races are dumber than others for as long as the idea of race has existed... but is this an idea that would be taken seriously by the courts?

Absolutely. The concept is known as disparate impact. A test which results in members protected classes being less likely to be selected is not allowed unless you can demonstrate that the test is connected to job performance. There is a famous case from the 70's where the company wasn't even allowed to require a high-school diploma: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#534

Post by eru »

MCRed wrote: post #309
brianchu wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a CS student and most students I know dislike whiteboarding too (and by extension many, if not most, YC startup employees do too). But I'm pretty okay at them now, having had lots of practice. The key advantage for students I think is the ability to have sustained practice over the course of a month (e.g. > 4 onsites over the course of a month), which most students can afford since their schedules are flexible. A…

IF they have you write code, think twice about taking the job. That's an indicator of a junior engineer conducting an interview in a company that didn't care enough to work out a good process. Seriously. I've been working for startups and starting companies for 26 years, and for half that time I've been building teams. I stopped asking people to code a long time ago. If they can't code it will be obvious by their ans…

Just the opposite:

If they don't make you write any code, do not work there: you might end up working with people who can't write code---because the application process doesn't filter those bozos out.

(Doesn't have to be `write code on a whiteboard'. Whiteboarding is actually pretty artificial. Just make sure they do make you write code at all.)

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#535

Post by eru »

MCRed wrote: post #462
erichmond wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that he's referring to startups, not monstrous companies like Google. I think the reason you whiteboard for google interviews because you will necessarily be a cog in a wheel, and the focus of the cog is to code. At smaller companies / startups, you will potentially be expected to design, architect, gather requirements, code, etc.

Sorry, I think google is incompetently run. That they whiteboard, and want prestigious degrees, and all that other BS is just a smell of their incompetence. (Their performance in key technical areas is the proof... but I understand to most readers here they are probably starry eyed about google, while I've competed with them and kicked their ass in the market.)

Google stopped caring about degrees a few years ago.

(Interviewing is still somewhat silly.)

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#536

Post by eru »

aaalll wrote: post #369
gotchange wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coding as part of the interview process is a reasonable request to ask from the applicant and I'm having hard time to understand your objection to this step.

Not really you don't get to see surgeons operate when applying to a position. There is a lack of trust why this whiteboard stuff happens to be honest I pass about 60% of the white interviews that i did.

You do get chefs to cook.

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#537

Post by rifung »

knughit wrote: post #468
rifung wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you figure out how you can memorize your way through Google's interview process, please give me some advice. I study algorithms constantly out of interest, and still only managed to do well enough that they gave me another try a week later. Do I think algorithm questions predict how well you do on a job? No. However I certainly don't think they are just memorization unless you mean memorizing run time of various…

Careercup.com If you can ace Algorithms 101 exam, you can get hired. It is a measure of intelligence and ability to learn (and for older folks, free time to refresh) but it doesn't have much to do with job performance.

Unfortunately I already use CareerCup.com and aced my algorithms final when I was in school. However, it's not like you can just memorize the stuff you see on CareerCup since it's unlikely you'll be asked a question you saw on there, unless it's a relatively easy/popular one.

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#538

Post by eru »

RightWingRabble wrote: post #320
MCRed wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IF they have you write code, think twice about taking the job. That's an indicator of a junior engineer conducting an interview in a company that didn't care enough to work out a good process. Seriously. I've been working for startups and starting companies for 26 years, and for half that time I've been building teams. I stopped asking people to code a long time ago. If they can't code it will be obvious by their ans…

Are you in a position to name company names? Most everybody I interview with does this (at a minimum). I'd love to interview at a company that has a smarter system in place.

See http://sockpuppet.org/blog/2015/03/06/the-hiring-post/ and Matasano.

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#539

Post by eru »

karmacondon wrote: post #294
eropple wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A work-hire test attracts the best programmers. It doesn't repel them. I'm not the best programmer, but I'm comfortable I'd slot in the top quintile, probably top ten percent, of people that walk through a startup's door. And I'd never even return your call. No work-sample test I've ever seen would take less than four hours. That's a $550 opportunity cost for me at my standard rates. What the hell makes you think y…

If you're a top ten percent programmer who charges $137/hr then this whole discussion probably isn't oriented at you. By definition, most programmers are not in the top ten percent. They make money by sitting down and writing code, not by projecting confidence and machismo. So why shouldn't they prove their abilities and evaluate the company and it's general environment by sitting down and actually coding? I'm very o…

Actually, $137/hr is pretty cheap..

Re: Who Y Combinator Companies Want

#540

Post by rhizome »

engi_nerd wrote: post #486
Rotten194 wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. If you can't think of a canned answer for that question, there is approximately 0 chance you can navigate the workplace politics of a large defense contractor.

Is that a bad thing? I mean, I could probably BS something, but this strikes me as the kind of question that only an HR person would ask. And yes, I'm already in the exact scenario you say I shouldn't be able to handle.

Who knows what random stuff will come up in an interview. I've worked at companies of all sizes and never received any guidance on interviewing, so questions swiped from internet headlines would come as no surprise. This is an old story around here.
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