1984 – When women stopped coding • Hacker News Board

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#181

Post by ryandrake » Wed, Dec 09, 2015, 7:40 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #180

pc86 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what they mean is: 1. If you are a programmer who can make an above-average salary immediate upon graduating; and 2. If you are able to save an above average amount of that salary; and 3. If you are exceptionally good at traditional investment decisions (stock picking) such that you can consistently beat the market; and 4. You actually decide to use the money from #2 for #3 Then it's possible to retire after…

>>who can make an above-average salary An above average salary in most common cases is interchangeable with 'living within means'. You can start with whatever little you have and grow. Its really not about how small you start, its about how quickly and consistently you are making an attempt to grow.

If you have $100 to invest, you're down 5-10% right off the bat just from fixed price trading fees. Having little to invest is a huge roadblock.

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#182

Post by pc86 » Wed, Dec 09, 2015, 7:42 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #181

kamaal wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>who can make an above-average salary An above average salary in most common cases is interchangeable with 'living within means'. You can start with whatever little you have and grow. Its really not about how small you start, its about how quickly and consistently you are making an attempt to grow.

If you have $100 to invest, you're down 5-10% right off the bat just from fixed price trading fees. Having little to invest is a huge roadblock.

I've never seen someone with any background in or knowledge of retail investment suggest that anyone start with less than $5,000. That seems to be about the minimum, especially if you're picking stocks where you're almost guaranteed to under-perform the market in the long term.

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#183

Post by ryandrake » Wed, Dec 09, 2015, 7:49 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #179

ryandrake wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL, only if by "investment decisions" you mean "luck into a 1 out of 1000 unicorn startup". I don't know a single programmer retired in their 30s who did it with salary and retail investing.

Even if its not that. It still doesn't mean - "Blows entire salary to smithereens'. Basic knowledge of savings and investments will put you ahead of bulk of the crowd out there. As an Indian, I don't know much about the US market. But you guys still have index funds, Roth IRA, IRA and real estate to invest in. In India even cab drivers who made bad real estate decisions have typically reaped X00% returns. People who…

You cannot start taking penalty-free distributions from an IRA until you're 59.5 years old. So that's definitely not the way to retire in your 30s.

I've found people who boldly claim you can invest your way to early retirement always speak in vague generalities, and never have specific advice to offer. "Just be smart" and "pick the right funds" but if you press them on exactly what to do with, for example, $1000 in investable income a month in order to retire in 20 years with $5000 a month in income, they tend to come up short on details.

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#184

Post by Ygg2 » Wed, Dec 09, 2015, 7:59 PM UTC

facepalm wrote: post #16

Ygg2 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably nothing. More likely marketing computer as boy/nerd toy is what caused a shift.

Why is that likely?

I said more likely, but why is that more likely? Because huge shift in public opinion are from my experience, most likely made by marketing agencies.

Also ads like these: http://howtonotsuckatgamedesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/...

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#185

Post by Elesemoran » Wed, Dec 09, 2015, 8:18 PM UTC

purpled_haze wrote: post #6

I have daughters and was not able to get them interested in any computer unless it involves games or social media. But the boys they hang out with are the same way- games only, for the most part. While I played a lot of games on my computer as a youth, I also spent a lot of time trying to program games. Today, I'm a developer. Because of kids' fascination with their phones and tablets, and because programming isn't a…

Purple_hazed, I found a company a couple of months ago that is using the raspberry Pi circuit board to teach kids how to build a computer while playing minecraft. A kickstarter success back in April, they are in Alpha and will be receiving their first shipment of Pipers in the coming weeks. Needless to say, I feel in love with the idea, especially as a computer science girl geek.

Summation: It reintroduces the physical world back into the physical and makes DIY learning really fun for kids and parents. It was so compelling, I reached out to the CEO Mark (http://bit.ly/MarkPavlyukovskyy)to see how I could help them and is why I am making this post today. Mark has an amazing story and reason behind why he created Piper and the team is ingenious. Proof in point, I met with one of the Alpha tester families last week and this is what they had to say:

“Engaging, interactive and fun… It's not like most gaming systems,the whole family can learn how things are processing while playing and having fun.

I would much rather have my son playing Piper vs all of the other consoles we have in our home, anytime!”

Find out more @ playpiper.com, reach out to me if there are further questions too elesemoran@gmail.com

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#186

Post by Elesemoran » Wed, Dec 09, 2015, 8:23 PM UTC

purpled_haze wrote: post #6

I have daughters and was not able to get them interested in any computer unless it involves games or social media. But the boys they hang out with are the same way- games only, for the most part. While I played a lot of games on my computer as a youth, I also spent a lot of time trying to program games. Today, I'm a developer. Because of kids' fascination with their phones and tablets, and because programming isn't a…

Purple_hazed, I found a company a couple of months ago that is using the raspberry Pi circuit board to teach kids how to build a computer while playing minecraft. A kickstarter success back in April, they are in Alpha and will be receiving their first shipment of Pipers in the coming weeks. Needless to say, I feel in love with the idea, especially as a computer science girl geek.

Summation: It reintroduces the physical world back into the virtual and makes DIY learning really fun for kids and parents (even moms raved). It was so compelling, I reached out to the CEO Mark (http://bit.ly/MarkPavlyukovskyy)to see how I could help them make a difference. Mark has an amazing story and reason behind why he created Piper and the team is an ingenious group of savvy hackers. Proof in point, I met with one of the Alpha tester families last week and this is what they had to say:

“Engaging, interactive and fun… It's not like most gaming systems,the whole family can learn how things are processing while playing and having fun.

I would much rather have my son playing Piper vs all of the other consoles we have in our home, anytime!”

Thank you for bringing this to our attention and you can find more info @ playpiper.com

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#187

Post by scotty79 » Wed, Dec 09, 2015, 9:03 PM UTC

crusso wrote: post #79

And these toys were marketed almost entirely to men and boys. That's a pretty bad correlation-is-not-causation slip there. Marketing efforts, especially in new markets tend to take the path of least resistance. If they were marketing to males, it was most likely because males were showing an early interest in those products and likely to be the quickest way to grow marketshare. My personal experience was that I didn'…

I think you underestimate serious drive in children (and older) to be not like the other (gender).

You'd be way more reluctant as a young boy to approach computer if everybody knew that computers are what girls play with and all the ads had pink unicorns, stars and sparkle in the background.

I vividly remember times when I was 10 or something and even talking to girls was act of treason against you own boy tribe.

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#188

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Wed, Dec 09, 2015, 9:06 PM UTC

grandDesigns wrote: post #78

Because women are smarter. I notice that graph compares Computer Science ($50K-$150K/year), to Medical School ($150K--$1M), Law School ($120K--$1M), and Physical Sciences (???). Women see the writing on the wall on High School: Med/Law School offer a clear career path to the upper middle class, while CS offers a muddy path at a middle class life. They also see "rich" old Doctors and Lawyers. They have never seen a "r…

And to add anecdote to anecdata: the girl who was my senior year lab partner in EE spent a few years as an engineer, decided she'd had enough, and is now a physician in Hawaii.

Last time I talked to her, she was quite happy with her choice.

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#189

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Wed, Dec 09, 2015, 9:16 PM UTC

jazzyk wrote: post #143

kjdal2001 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw him give the same talk in Chicago, and the impression that I got was that the body he was advocating for had nothing to do with salaries. The AMA and the Bar might increase salaries by creating scarcity in their professions, but they aren't salary negotiating organizations like a union.

We don't need a union, but a professional body representing us would do wonders. Merely sorting out the H1B visa mess (not necessarily eliminating) would help salaries. My wife is an architect (residential) and her clients cannot tell her to take a shortcut which violates the Building Code. I'd love to be able to say "no" to some stupid, short-sighted requests I get from clients. Without a professional organization b…

That's a totally different issue though.

Even if your wife thinks it's good idea to violate the building Code in some isolated case, she still can't legally do it.

You're just looking for someone to back you up because you think your client is short-sighted. You'd have equal leverage to your wife's if your software was processing data in a regulated industry and a client asked you to do something against regulations.

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#190

Post by stuxnet79 » Wed, Dec 09, 2015, 9:32 PM UTC

deveac wrote: post #136

cicero wrote: post #132

I've read elsewhere how in the earliest days of computers, men designed the hardware and relegated the programming to women because it was seen as clerical work, albeit advanced clerical work. Because of this, women, such as Grace Hopper, became well established in the field. The advent of the Apple II and TRS-80 exposed kids (including myself) to computers, and with these machines, programming was the most accessibl…

>There is something different about girls and boys such that this kind of tinkering with gadgets appeals much more to boys than girls. There is something different about what our culture teaches and signals to girls and boys from the moment they are born such that this kind of tinkering with gadgets appeals much more to boys than girls.

Same thing if you want to be a programmer and happen to not be indian, white or chinese.