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1984 – When women stopped coding

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Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#101

Post by lsaferite »

cheez wrote: post #25
purpled_haze wrote: post #6

I have daughters and was not able to get them interested in any computer unless it involves games or social media. But the boys they hang out with are the same way- games only, for the most part. While I played a lot of games on my computer as a youth, I also spent a lot of time trying to program games. Today, I'm a developer. Because of kids' fascination with their phones and tablets, and because programming isn't a…

The problem is you haven't caught up with what computers have become: a utility. They were a novelty when you were growing up, but they are a utility now. What that means is that people who deal with computers are going to be professionals ranging from the spectrum of architect to plumber: there are more plumbers than architects. Do you think your plumber had an innate desire to be a plumber? No. They looked at their…

Being a plumber is actually a good career. You can't outsource it, you always need them at some point, and the hourly rate is quite high. Maybe you could automate it? At the point tech can automate all aspects of a plumbers job, we'll have automated most jobs (IMHO).

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#102

Post by panglott »

leaveyou wrote: post #70
userium wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, after getting girls interested in programming, one of the problems is how to keep them in tech. Currently, over 40% of women leave tech mid-career, which is more than double the quit rate for men ( https://keepwomen.com/info/aboutus ).

The website you linked is deeply discriminatory and offensive to males in tech. "Why do women leave tech?: many women leave tech due to working conditions (low salary, no advancement), work-life balance (too much travelling, commuting) What do women want in the workplace?: flexible working hours, personal development opportunities." What about the males in tech ? They don't deserve better salary and advancements ? Th…

Are males in tech really so easily offended?

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#103

Post by roymurdock »

purpled_haze wrote: post #6

I have daughters and was not able to get them interested in any computer unless it involves games or social media. But the boys they hang out with are the same way- games only, for the most part. While I played a lot of games on my computer as a youth, I also spent a lot of time trying to program games. Today, I'm a developer. Because of kids' fascination with their phones and tablets, and because programming isn't a…

I'm 22 so I'm kind of caught between you and your daughters, but my understanding is that Minecraft is that new "OS" or "application" that is exceedingly fun while teaching programming in the phone/tablet age. It's phenomenal how popular it is among the younger generations...its coming to replace the legos of my (relative) youth.

MSFT is pushing it down the coding/education path as well - they recently launched a Minecraft/Code.org collab - https://code.org/mc - which I'm assuming is slightly more fun than programming a spreadsheet or rules in an email app.

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#104

Post by mikkergp »

grandDesigns wrote: post #78

Because women are smarter. I notice that graph compares Computer Science ($50K-$150K/year), to Medical School ($150K--$1M), Law School ($120K--$1M), and Physical Sciences (???). Women see the writing on the wall on High School: Med/Law School offer a clear career path to the upper middle class, while CS offers a muddy path at a middle class life. They also see "rich" old Doctors and Lawyers. They have never seen a "r…

'Women' and 'men' are fairly large groups by which to organize people. I don't have a source, but I would wager a guess that there were other men who chose medicine and law(particularly since these graphs never grow above 50%) even though you chose a as. And why did women only start to see the writing on the wall after 1984? (Per the graph).

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#105

Post by lotu »

grandDesigns wrote: post #78

Because women are smarter. I notice that graph compares Computer Science ($50K-$150K/year), to Medical School ($150K--$1M), Law School ($120K--$1M), and Physical Sciences (???). Women see the writing on the wall on High School: Med/Law School offer a clear career path to the upper middle class, while CS offers a muddy path at a middle class life. They also see "rich" old Doctors and Lawyers. They have never seen a "r…

I really question where you are getting your numbers they don't really make sense to me. Second, I will point out that the market for lawyers is completely oversaturated, so if you go to law school unless you went to a top ten law school you may end up working at Starbucks (slight exageration). As far as medicine their is very clear demand but the costs to get their are very high. You have an extra $100K, for 4 years of med school and 3 of residency where you act like a Doctor but get paid shit. You don't start making money until you are 30, while in CS you can be making big buck at 21. Physical Sciences get paid even worse.

You cannot make a argument that women are just taking the more optimal career path and leaving men to do what is left over.

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#106

Post by rasz_pl »

userium wrote: post #19
purpled_haze wrote: post #6

I have daughters and was not able to get them interested in any computer unless it involves games or social media. But the boys they hang out with are the same way- games only, for the most part. While I played a lot of games on my computer as a youth, I also spent a lot of time trying to program games. Today, I'm a developer. Because of kids' fascination with their phones and tablets, and because programming isn't a…

Also, after getting girls interested in programming, one of the problems is how to keep them in tech. Currently, over 40% of women leave tech mid-career, which is more than double the quit rate for men ( https://keepwomen.com/info/aboutus ).

>40% of women leave tech mid-career

because they get pregnant?

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#107

Post by kelukelugames »

grandDesigns wrote: post #78

Because women are smarter. I notice that graph compares Computer Science ($50K-$150K/year), to Medical School ($150K--$1M), Law School ($120K--$1M), and Physical Sciences (???). Women see the writing on the wall on High School: Med/Law School offer a clear career path to the upper middle class, while CS offers a muddy path at a middle class life. They also see "rich" old Doctors and Lawyers. They have never seen a "r…

30 years ago, software engineers also had low social status. Only recently did our profession become more respectable.

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#108

Post by nightspirit »

threatofrain wrote: post #50
purpled_haze wrote: post #6

I have daughters and was not able to get them interested in any computer unless it involves games or social media. But the boys they hang out with are the same way- games only, for the most part. While I played a lot of games on my computer as a youth, I also spent a lot of time trying to program games. Today, I'm a developer. Because of kids' fascination with their phones and tablets, and because programming isn't a…

I've had some similar anecdotal experiences in an education franchise, where I've found that it's very difficult to convince boys or girls that math, physics, programming, or computer science is fun or worthy. In fact, I have trouble convincing them that any intellectual pursuit is worthy. Kids tend to enjoy "science" more, but only in terms of what appears to them as fun experiment. When you try to explain anything…

> I've had some similar anecdotal experiences in an education franchise, where I've found that it's very difficult to convince boys or girls that math, physics, programming, or computer science is fun or worthy.

I think kids often operate on simple social heuristics. Guess what it means when somebody tells you ad nausem that something is important to you while his tone, body language and whatnot consistently shows that he cares about you learning this infinitely more than you do? Yes, exactly, this is the smell of bullshit. If science really was that important and if you understood science enough to be worth learning from, obviously you'd be using science to improve their lives all the time and they'd immediately start to monkey you. That's how it works.

I think my parents understood this to some degree and didn't try to shove down my throat things I didn't care about, except maybe for religion. Care to guess how far this one went?

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#109

Post by gauthr »

scbrg wrote: post #87
anjanb wrote: post #55

A lot of indian women are taking to coding/programming career. Currently, the estimate of number of women programmers in india is about 1,00,000. They are expected to grow to 2,00,00 in less than 10 years.

Not to be nitpicky, but you probably want to review how you typed those numbers. The second is smaller than the first, and the commas are not grouping the zeroes in groups of three. I suppose you mean either 10^5 or 10^6, but I'm not sure which.

They're using the Indian numbering system -- see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_numbering_system

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#110

Post by rasz_pl »

scbrg wrote: post #87
anjanb wrote: post #55

A lot of indian women are taking to coding/programming career. Currently, the estimate of number of women programmers in india is about 1,00,000. They are expected to grow to 2,00,00 in less than 10 years.

Not to be nitpicky, but you probably want to review how you typed those numbers. The second is smaller than the first, and the commas are not grouping the zeroes in groups of three. I suppose you mean either 10^5 or 10^6, but I'm not sure which.

Not to be racist, but this is exactly what I experienced when dealing with projects outsourced to India.
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