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1984 – When women stopped coding

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Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#91

Post by crusso »

purpled_haze wrote: post #6

I have daughters and was not able to get them interested in any computer unless it involves games or social media. But the boys they hang out with are the same way- games only, for the most part. While I played a lot of games on my computer as a youth, I also spent a lot of time trying to program games. Today, I'm a developer. Because of kids' fascination with their phones and tablets, and because programming isn't a…

I have daughters as well. I tried to get them interested in computers, I really did. I tried to show them how they could make web pages with HTML. I tried to show them some basic Ruby to ask them questions on the command line that they could answer (thinking that if I could emulate a social aspect of computers they might become interested).

Nothing I tried worked.

I talked one daughter into taking the AP Comp Sci class in high school this year because I assured her that I would be able to coach her through any problems. The summer before the class, I did my best to start going over basic concepts that she would cover in class - just so she could hit the ground running... she adamantly refused to waste her summer on that subject.

Meanwhile, a neighbor of mine called me because his son had taken up programming their home computer on his own and wanted some advice on languages and projects to pursue.

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#92

Post by rimantas »

jessaustin wrote: post #17

The share of women in computer science started falling at roughly the same moment when personal computers started showing up in U.S. homes in significant numbers... And these... were marketed almost entirely to men and boys. Great, another travesty for which we have marketing to thank.

except that there were countries without such marketing, and the trend is still the same. I doubt that US marketing had any effect on USSR. And keep in mind, that in the USSR there was some push for the women to take "male" jobs and be proud about being e.g. miner or harvester driver.

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#93

Post by MrPatan »

Wintamute wrote: post #11
purpled_haze wrote: post #6

I have daughters and was not able to get them interested in any computer unless it involves games or social media. But the boys they hang out with are the same way- games only, for the most part. While I played a lot of games on my computer as a youth, I also spent a lot of time trying to program games. Today, I'm a developer. Because of kids' fascination with their phones and tablets, and because programming isn't a…

I think you're right. Back in the 70s/80s/90s kids had to work at using their computers. In order to play a game in the early 80s I had to hook up a tape recorder, fiddle with the volume, tape a 1kb RAM upgrade to the back of the computer and write some code to start playing a game. In the 90s I had to wrestle with AUTOEXEC.BAT and COMMAND.COM for hours to make DOS recognise my sound card. Technical effort and persev…

I just tried to think back at how on earth could I have done that without looking it up on the internet. I did it. No doubt about it. Would I be able to do it today? I'm suddenly not happy with this line of thought...

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#94

Post by jcadam »

grandDesigns wrote: post #78

Because women are smarter. I notice that graph compares Computer Science ($50K-$150K/year), to Medical School ($150K--$1M), Law School ($120K--$1M), and Physical Sciences (???). Women see the writing on the wall on High School: Med/Law School offer a clear career path to the upper middle class, while CS offers a muddy path at a middle class life. They also see "rich" old Doctors and Lawyers. They have never seen a "r…

THIS. I love programming, and spent my childhood hacking away on Apple IIs/Amigas/etc., but if I had my teens/twenties to do over again, I would pursue a career in Medicine (couldn't have stomached a career in Law, methinks) while continuing to program as a 'hobby.'

Alas, I followed my "passion." Blech.

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#95

Post by Wintamute »

skoczymroczny wrote: post #39
Wintamute wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right. Back in the 70s/80s/90s kids had to work at using their computers. In order to play a game in the early 80s I had to hook up a tape recorder, fiddle with the volume, tape a 1kb RAM upgrade to the back of the computer and write some code to start playing a game. In the 90s I had to wrestle with AUTOEXEC.BAT and COMMAND.COM for hours to make DOS recognise my sound card. Technical effort and persev…

I think you mean CONFIG.SYS :)

Oh yeah, that was it! :)

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#96

Post by voltagex_ »

wernercd wrote: post #60
krylon wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft could, if they port it to a sensible language and structure, drag in millions of young programmers. The first thing I would like them to do is include some form of programming tools with Windows. On a Mac[1], you have Python, Perl, and Ruby available on a default installation, and you get XCode for free from the App Store. A fresh installation of Windows, OTOH, is a barren wasteland in comparison, and the…

Visual Studio 2015 Community Edition is considered a top-notch programming environment... and it's free. It would be the perfect place to put something with built in programming hooks into Minecraft. And... there is already too many people putting too much garbage on devices that people don't need... last thing we need is being loaded down with crap - whether Python, perl or Visual Studios - on a default install of W…

If Candy Crush is installed on your copy of Windows, the OEM got paid for it. A "default" install doesn't have it, although you may see an "ad" for it on the Start Menu which can quickly be removed. Yes, there's way too much colour and movement on the Start Menu in 10.

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#98

Post by CrLf »

mattmanser wrote: post #37
hvidgaard wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outsourcing has its uses, but the majority of programming jobs cannot be oursourced, and with time it will become even less profitable to do. However, programming any major system today does require extensive knowledge and I dare say a CS degree as well. It's becoming more and more like an engineering discipline, and as such I think we're going to see a shift towards programming being something you need a college deg…

Programming a major system has absolutely no need of a CS degree. I know and have worked with programmers with and without a CS degree (I'm one of the ones without). As far as I can tell it's no indicator of programmer skill at all.

Just like building a skyscraper doesn't require a degree. You don't need a degree to lay bricks, pour cement or assemble rebar. But you do if you're the one designing the structure in the first place.

There is a lot of knowledge to be gained by experience, but sometimes it's useful to have knowledge gained from books, and in particular from books you had no interest reading in the first place (which is the real value of a degree: forcing you to go through a process that includes stuff you like and stuff you dislike).

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#99

Post by jcadam »

crusso wrote: post #79

And these toys were marketed almost entirely to men and boys. That's a pretty bad correlation-is-not-causation slip there. Marketing efforts, especially in new markets tend to take the path of least resistance. If they were marketing to males, it was most likely because males were showing an early interest in those products and likely to be the quickest way to grow marketshare. My personal experience was that I didn'…

He forgot the INVERSE:FLASH :)

My first program on the new family Apple ][e was a flashing, infinitely-scrolling insult directed at my older sister.

Re: 1984 – When women stopped coding

#100

Post by lsaferite »

jumpwah wrote: post #22
purpled_haze wrote: post #6

I have daughters and was not able to get them interested in any computer unless it involves games or social media. But the boys they hang out with are the same way- games only, for the most part. While I played a lot of games on my computer as a youth, I also spent a lot of time trying to program games. Today, I'm a developer. Because of kids' fascination with their phones and tablets, and because programming isn't a…

> What the world needs is an operating system (or systems) or even an application or set of applications that almost everyone would want to use that require programming in some form or fashion to accomplish everyday tasks better. Tangentially related, but this is why I think Emacs is a great... should I say, 'platform'. Maybe not for young children as in the case you talked about with yours, but a quote from one of R…

Having recently started coaching a FLL Robotics Team on programming, I'd say the modern day version of that is something like LabView. Drag and drop programming. I think anyone with half a logical thought in their head could make something that works with LabView or Mindstorms.
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