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Reported Bitcoin 'founder' Craig Wright's home raided by Australian police

theguardian.com

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Re: Reported Bitcoin 'founder' Craig Wright's home raided by Australian police

#51

Post by sillysaurus3 »

nullc wrote: post #46
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(EDIT: There are some good points in the ensuing discussion below. I don't know what to think yet, but my comment here was unfair. Sorry, kanzure. And thank you to everyone who responded.) As far as I can tell, you're bullying gwern. Please stop. If you have a point, then make it clearly. Leave out speculation about "what would happen if it was a US no-knock raid." What, precisely, did gwern do? Their replies address…

Gwern has a long history of obsessive and misdirected behavior on this subject which is likely to cause harm to others. This particular case is Gwern's N-th accused "satoshi"... and this time the evidence consists mostly of counter evidence. For example, these pgp signed emails are signed with the key with short ID 5EB7CB21 which is not the well known key, does not exist in old keyserver dumps, and has a pref-hash-al…

If you believe that gwern has done something to warrant this criticism, I would really love to understand that.

Does gwern's reply on Reddit address what you just wrote?

And as I pointed out in my subsequent replies which you have left out, I am perfectly aware that PGP public key metadata (not pgp.mit.edu timestamps, since the keyservers are only reading what the keys say!) can be backdated at creation, and this is why we put our effort into nailing down the creation and modification dates of the blog post in third-party archives like the IA and Google Reader.

Our case was not based on the key creation dates and it is bullshit for you to imply that it was or that their unreliability torpedoes the article.

Can you point out which part of the gizmodo or wired articles were based on mistaken evidence from gwern's investigation?

Re: Reported Bitcoin 'founder' Craig Wright's home raided by Australian police

#52

Post by thebooktocome »

nullc wrote: post #46
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(EDIT: There are some good points in the ensuing discussion below. I don't know what to think yet, but my comment here was unfair. Sorry, kanzure. And thank you to everyone who responded.) As far as I can tell, you're bullying gwern. Please stop. If you have a point, then make it clearly. Leave out speculation about "what would happen if it was a US no-knock raid." What, precisely, did gwern do? Their replies address…

Gwern has a long history of obsessive and misdirected behavior on this subject which is likely to cause harm to others. This particular case is Gwern's N-th accused "satoshi"... and this time the evidence consists mostly of counter evidence. For example, these pgp signed emails are signed with the key with short ID 5EB7CB21 which is not the well known key, does not exist in old keyserver dumps, and has a pref-hash-al…

> This particular case is Gwern's N-th accused "satoshi"

Not with this degree of certainty.

Re: Reported Bitcoin 'founder' Craig Wright's home raided by Australian police

#53

Post by eudox »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #47
eudox wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the guy, out of narcissism or whatever, made some imprudent edits to old blogposts. Taking advantage of that to publish an unsubstantiated article that potentially puts someone's life at risk is, for lack of a stronger word, wrong.

Which part of http://gizmodo.com/this-australian-says-he-and-his-dead-frie... do you believe is unsubstantiated? The situation is just confusing. Help me understand what's going on here. If part of that article is unsubstantiated, then everyone would be interested in that.

We have no way to independently verify the authenticity of the leaks, the key "evidence" is a dead-end, so are the edits to the posts, as the authors admit in the Wired article.

Re: Reported Bitcoin 'founder' Craig Wright's home raided by Australian police

#54

Post by thebooktocome »

kanzure wrote: post #17

I fear gwern has gone off the deep end on this one, situation is getting ridiculous: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3vzgnd/bitcoins_cr...

Hey, you haven't tried to discredit gwern on Twitter yet! Maybe you should get on that?

Re: Reported Bitcoin 'founder' Craig Wright's home raided by Australian police

#55

Post by sillysaurus3 »

kanzure wrote: post #50
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me try again. I chose my words carefully. What, precisely, did gwern do ? Describe their actions as if your Reddit link didn't exist. Are you upset about the contents of that IRC transcript? Because gwern already said that had nothing to do with the investigation, and I believe them. They mention the Internet Archive as one way of verifying the authenticity of various internet posts / timestamps, for example. Per…

> I chose my words carefully. What, precisely, did gwern do? Describe their actions as if your Reddit link didn't exist. I also chose my words carefully. I pointed out that he was involved in making this accusation. He used faulty reasoning from poor misevidence to draw a conclusion that can bring tremendous harm to others. Article states his involvement, plus private correspondence of ~30 days of work on this articl…

Yeah, good points. Thanks for your patience, and sorry that my replies were blunt. It's late, but there's really no excuse. Have a good evening.

Re: Reported Bitcoin 'founder' Craig Wright's home raided by Australian police

#56

Post by nullc »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #51
nullc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gwern has a long history of obsessive and misdirected behavior on this subject which is likely to cause harm to others. This particular case is Gwern's N-th accused "satoshi"... and this time the evidence consists mostly of counter evidence. For example, these pgp signed emails are signed with the key with short ID 5EB7CB21 which is not the well known key, does not exist in old keyserver dumps, and has a pref-hash-al…

If you believe that gwern has done something to warrant this criticism, I would really love to understand that. Does gwern's reply on Reddit address what you just wrote? And as I pointed out in my subsequent replies which you have left out, I am perfectly aware that PGP public key metadata (not pgp.mit.edu timestamps, since the keyservers are only reading what the keys say!) can be backdated at creation, and this is…

Basically every piece of evidence that can falsified in this case is falsified. The PGP key used to sign the emails: Backdated with almost complete certainty. The blog posts? edited in 2013 to include the 'bitcoin hints'.

What is more likely: Someone who is Bitcoin's creator in hiding, went and created a pile of provably falsified information that they were Bitcoin's creator, plus left some circumstantial evidence that can't be decided .... Or someone who _wasn't_ Bitcoin's creator, went and created false evidence and had some circumstantial evidence by chance (or falsified too but not proven yet)?

In any case the complaint isn't even so much about this particular drama-fest, it's about the repeated behavior. This time it looks like it may have precipitated a raid on someones house (otherwise the timing is more coincidental than most of this evidence), had it been in some places in the US perhaps the victim (or at least their dog) wouldn't even be alive now.

Re: Reported Bitcoin 'founder' Craig Wright's home raided by Australian police

#57

Post by kiba »

mikeyouse wrote: post #49
cba9 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's difficult to successfully get it, and there's a lot that could go wrong and, say, prompt a lawsuit or criminal case?

Yep, there are all sorts of forms about material representations and liabilities for false statements. It seems like a well-run program, our contacts with the ATO were very sharp and knew which questions to ask. You could tell they've ferreted out fraudulent applications before.

Sounds like something most companies won't touch with a nine foot pole.

Re: Reported Bitcoin 'founder' Craig Wright's home raided by Australian police

#58

Post by grovulent »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #34
kanzure wrote: post #17

I fear gwern has gone off the deep end on this one, situation is getting ridiculous: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3vzgnd/bitcoins_cr...

(EDIT: There are some good points in the ensuing discussion below. I don't know what to think yet, but my comment here was unfair. Sorry, kanzure. And thank you to everyone who responded.) As far as I can tell, you're bullying gwern. Please stop. If you have a point, then make it clearly. Leave out speculation about "what would happen if it was a US no-knock raid." What, precisely, did gwern do? Their replies address…

As others have pointed out - it's arguable that publishing any claim about the identity of SN - puts the target in considerable, potential danger.

Now I can understand that there is a public interest component in knowing SN's identity. And I'd even be willing to accept (but really only for sake of argument) that this public interest overrides SN's own right to privacy and safety.

But to make these accusations when you yourself admit - as the article does - that there is a substantial degree of doubt, is to put at risk the safety and privacy of a person who doesn't deserve it in the least.

This is an absolutely appalling thing to do to anyone. And it should be prima-facie obvious to you as to why.

While I don't condone bullying of any sort - it really is the least of what these authors deserve. I personally don't feel Kanzure is bullying - merely pointing out how appalling this behaviour is, and this absolutely needs to be pointed out.

Re: Reported Bitcoin 'founder' Craig Wright's home raided by Australian police

#59

Post by apsec112 »

kanzure wrote: post #37
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(EDIT: There are some good points in the ensuing discussion below. I don't know what to think yet, but my comment here was unfair. Sorry, kanzure. And thank you to everyone who responded.) As far as I can tell, you're bullying gwern. Please stop. If you have a point, then make it clearly. Leave out speculation about "what would happen if it was a US no-knock raid." What, precisely, did gwern do? Their replies address…

I used to like the guy (this is crossing a line, for me) and I think he has lots of potential, but there's no reason for civilized society to tolerate anons recklessly calling in raids based on the accumulated weight of lots of non-evidence. When you make an accusation that someone is the richest person of all time, you are putting their life in danger and hanging your reputation on it. Standards of evidence here nee…

"recklessly calling in raids"

There is no evidence Gwern "called in" a raid. The Australian Federal Police deny that the raid had any connection to recent media reports, and say the timing was a coincidence: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/bitcoin-mystery-home-o...

Re: Reported Bitcoin 'founder' Craig Wright's home raided by Australian police

#60

Post by 21echoes »

Mtinie wrote: post #12

From the article: > Guardian Australia understands the raids are not related to the claims that Wright may have been involved in the creation of bitcoin, but are related to an Australian Tax Office investigation. So the story is that the Australian Tax Office just happened to be running an investigation looking into some facet of Craig Wright's finances. An investigation that apparently revealed some sort of abnormal…

Well, given that one of the primary sources in the article was a set of quotes from the ATO investigation itself...
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