Live data from Hacker News

How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

kotaku.com

151–160 of 194 posts

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#151
post #57

It is very hard to put yourself in position of very young child and issue judgement on what toddlers would like. I couldn't stand Teletubies, I still can't. But young kids are fascinated and my late grandma loved them too. Who am I to judge.

> issue judgement on what toddlers would like The issue here isn't really what toddlers like or don't like. The issue is, if you're going to sit your kid in front of a screen to watch something, what are they getting out of it? A 3- or 4-year old seeing 6-year old behavior in Big Bird sees a role model in how to behave. Seeing 3-year-old behavior in Elmo reinforces how they're already behaving.

2 or 3 year olds cannot learn empathy, their brains just aren't wired for it. It's like telling a wheelchair user 'here let me teach you how to run 100m in sub 10 secs'. Which is why I'm so dumbfounded by the comments agreeing with the article - it's based on the notion from 50 years ago that children are just adults who haven't been tought yet how to be adults. This is clear and plain nonsense, children and youth until ~ 25 years old (I realize I'm now antagonizing much of those reading this...) just don't have fully developed brains yet. Especially at lower ages it doesn't make sense to try to teach them things that they are physically incapable of learning.

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#152
post #79
post #52

I'd rather a million Elmo-centric Sesame Street episodes than even one episode of Barney or Caillou. That said, every kid needs some old-school, Elmo-free Sesame Street and Mister Rogers. (No, "Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood" is not the same; it's insipid and dumb by comparison.) Also, back in the day, Square One TV had a police-procedural parody called Mathnet that was still loads better than network TV's attempt at a…

Speaking of Mathnet they had another segment on there called Mathman. I got so into it when I was younger that I really rooted for Mathman to not lose to Glitch. They did a good job of gamifiying math for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Yd3tA4wMPI .

It inspired me to actually write a version of Mathman for the Apple II...

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#153
post #52

I'd rather a million Elmo-centric Sesame Street episodes than even one episode of Barney or Caillou. That said, every kid needs some old-school, Elmo-free Sesame Street and Mister Rogers. (No, "Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood" is not the same; it's insipid and dumb by comparison.) Also, back in the day, Square One TV had a police-procedural parody called Mathnet that was still loads better than network TV's attempt at a…

> It literally couldn't get any better for a kid than PBS in the 70s or 80s.

Don't forget such gems as "The Electric Company", "3-2-1 Contact", "Reading Rainbow", "Mr. Wizard", "Bill Nye" and others.

It seemed for a while that TV producers really wanted to pursue the mission of Television as an educational medium. I honestly don't know anything about the quality of today's material, but the material I grew up with was really well done on so many facets. It wasn't just about learning basic reading or arithmetic, but also about how to socialize well, diversity training, problem solving, emotional growth and more. It was multi-faceted and didn't pander to children or just spend 30 minutes entertaining them with vapid songs. I feel like there was a real earnest effort by very smart educators to use the medium to its fullest and I grew up enjoying those shows more than afternoon cartoons and other 30 minute commercials.

By comparison Barney, Teletubbies, and those late 90s, early 2000s "educational shows" are pure garbage. I can still sit down as an adult and find enjoyment in classic Sesame Street. And I think that's part of the difference, the modern shows were basically entertainment and electronic babysitters for busy parents, SST, Mr. R and classic children's shows taught on multiple levels and parents weren't bored out of their minds to sit with their own kids and help reinforce the lessons.

(Mathnet was one of my favorite segments of its parent show, It was funny and entertaining, but introduced basic math skills as well as critical thinking skills. It also introduced me to this kind of slightly archaic story-style which helped give me a life-long love of classic radio dramas and comedies)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_eBFzNLsGk

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#155
post #52

I'd rather a million Elmo-centric Sesame Street episodes than even one episode of Barney or Caillou. That said, every kid needs some old-school, Elmo-free Sesame Street and Mister Rogers. (No, "Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood" is not the same; it's insipid and dumb by comparison.) Also, back in the day, Square One TV had a police-procedural parody called Mathnet that was still loads better than network TV's attempt at a…

> Also, back in the day, Square One TV had a police-procedural parody called Mathnet I remember that; it was awesome . Drenched in cheesiness, but it served its goal, and it did manage the "tainment" part of "edutainment".

Odd Squad feels like a spiritual successor of Mathnet.

It's entertaining, educational, and clever enough for parents to watch and not want to gouge our eyes out.

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#156
post #147

Are you telling me Cosmos was not a kids show ?

It entirely depends on the kid.

Nova did a series on the formation and geological history of North America, and the local station happened to air it following their Sunday morning children's programming. My six year old sat through each episode entirely enraptured with it, and he asked all sorts of questions after. My younger kid, not so much.

I know Cosmos is going to be above his ability to completely understand, but I think it'd probably keep his attention and prompt questions.

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#157
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teletubbies is aimed at children young enough to not be speaking yet - 6 months to 2 years old.

Children under two aren't even supposed to watch television. > Television and other entertainment media should be avoided for infants and children under age 2. A child's brain develops rapidly during these first years, and young children learn best by interacting with people, not screens. https://www.aap.org/en-us/advocacy-and-policy/aap-health-ini...

My kids had virtually zero screentime before the age of 6. I really think all parents need to try to do this. Limited media is fine for older kids though.

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children under two aren't even supposed to watch television. > Television and other entertainment media should be avoided for infants and children under age 2. A child's brain develops rapidly during these first years, and young children learn best by interacting with people, not screens. https://www.aap.org/en-us/advocacy-and-policy/aap-health-ini...

These rules are considered to be outdated and very few pediatricians suggest "0 screen time" anymore. Please see various MODERN materials and their sources at: http://www.zerotothree.org/parenting-resources/screen-sense/...

That is because so few parents do the right thing.

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#159
post #151
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> issue judgement on what toddlers would like The issue here isn't really what toddlers like or don't like. The issue is, if you're going to sit your kid in front of a screen to watch something, what are they getting out of it? A 3- or 4-year old seeing 6-year old behavior in Big Bird sees a role model in how to behave. Seeing 3-year-old behavior in Elmo reinforces how they're already behaving.

2 or 3 year olds cannot learn empathy , their brains just aren't wired for it. It's like telling a wheelchair user 'here let me teach you how to run 100m in sub 10 secs'. Which is why I'm so dumbfounded by the comments agreeing with the article - it's based on the notion from 50 years ago that children are just adults who haven't been tought yet how to be adults. This is clear and plain nonsense, children and youth u…

They can't learn empathy until their brains develop, definitely. However, they can model the behavior they see around them—and by "can" I mean "do, constantly, whether you want them to or not". So showing them a positive role model for them to learn behavior from is still beneficial, and they'll pick up on the other things—like empathy—as their brains develop.

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children under two aren't even supposed to watch television. > Television and other entertainment media should be avoided for infants and children under age 2. A child's brain develops rapidly during these first years, and young children learn best by interacting with people, not screens. https://www.aap.org/en-us/advocacy-and-policy/aap-health-ini...

yeah. And as a parent who has held back normal bodily functions for an entire day while they did all the "right" things for their kids, sometimes the safest and best thing for everyone involved is to sit the kids in front of TV and know they will stay put for 15 minutes, so you can go to the toilet and then cook their dinner. Also, the other day our 4 year old told me he wanted to be a paleontologist so he can find b…

He wants to find dino poo, that is a cool 4 year old!
Post reply on HN