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Undercover Activists Buy Off Professors in Climate Sting

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Re: Undercover Activists Buy Off Professors in Climate Sting

#51

I see people arguing that there's nothing bad in this report. The shady, underhanded and dishonest context is so clear, I'm shocked to see so many such objections. The basic problem here is that two top academics are clearly selling the use of their credentials for clear commercial gain of a private company and using sophisticated means to hide the fact of such sale. That part is bad enough, even worse is the eager s…

If I write the paper alone, I don’t think there would be any problem stating that ‘The author received no financial compensation for this essay,’ - William Happer

In none of these cases is the sponsor identified. All my work is published as an independent scholar. – Frank Clemente

Re: Undercover Activists Buy Off Professors in Climate Sting

#52
post #44
post #14

I have some questions about this "sting" that were unanswered in the article. It would be one thing if the academic were paid to have a certain opinion, its is another thing entirely to pay an academic to falsify research supporting a viewpoint they already hold. It reads as if the academics were paid to support a thesis with evidence. Once you are at a high enough academic level you should be able to write a paper a…

Given how cleverly the authors tried to evade peer review, the evidence might have been quite flimsy to begin with. Peer review is the primary mechanism by which modern science verifies evidence, especially in fields like climate change where it's often very difficult to replicate another scientist's data. Evasion of peer review is like including an obfuscated blob in a critical part of some security software. It is…

Thats why you don't use that blob. I'm not saying that I trust the study, only that I don't see anything wrong with the author accepting money in exchange for writing it. Continuing the analogy, I don't see anything wrong with using or producing an obfuscated blob (in certain situations) but it wouldn't necessarily be wise to blindly trust it.

Re: Undercover Activists Buy Off Professors in Climate Sting

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, no, no, no. You miss the point. If you claim to be a scientist, you leave your personal beliefs at the lab door and abide to the experimental results. If you cannot do that, you pick a different subject of study and let some other unbiased scientist pick on the thorny (for you) subject. How would you feel if Hawkings were a Christian, and he would take money from the Pope and then wrote a report on how he saw Jes…

There is no such thing as an unbiased scientist. They are human, after all. Whenever you read about scientists reporting on X or discovering Y, you should absolutely consider their motives, especially in contentious subjects such as this one. And your analogy is only comparable if Hawking already had a history of reporting about seeing Jesus in black holes.

> you should absolutely consider their motives, especially in contentious subjects such as this one.

Which is why deliberately concealing and lying about funding sources in the manner described is SO BAD

Re: Undercover Activists Buy Off Professors in Climate Sting

#55

I see people arguing that there's nothing bad in this report. The shady, underhanded and dishonest context is so clear, I'm shocked to see so many such objections. The basic problem here is that two top academics are clearly selling the use of their credentials for clear commercial gain of a private company and using sophisticated means to hide the fact of such sale. That part is bad enough, even worse is the eager s…

What confuses me is that we all seem to have more-or-less the same moral compass when it comes to fiction. "The bad guy" is often going to extremes to prevent something from going public - dumping toxic waste in a river, taking bribes, selling a vote, torturing people in secret etc.

Somehow it seems like these days, if someone gets caught doing these things in real life, nothing happens. Dumping toxic waste is pro-business. Bribery is freedom of speech. Torture? Heck, it's not torture, and they're really bad people anyway.

Sometimes I want to grab these people and ask them, seriously, if this isn't evil, then what IS?

Re: Undercover Activists Buy Off Professors in Climate Sting

#56
post #19

Wonder if anyone is going to do the opposite - try to buy off pro-global-warming professor to produce exaggerated doomsday prediction - and what the outcome is going to be.

I wonder if Greenpeace is doing more to undermine confidence in all academic research, undermining confidence in climate change science much more than the denial of it.

Re: Undercover Activists Buy Off Professors in Climate Sting

#57
post #14

I have some questions about this "sting" that were unanswered in the article. It would be one thing if the academic were paid to have a certain opinion, its is another thing entirely to pay an academic to falsify research supporting a viewpoint they already hold. It reads as if the academics were paid to support a thesis with evidence. Once you are at a high enough academic level you should be able to write a paper a…

> I'd also like to point out that your comment is an example of what I consider to be the type of poorly thought out middle brow discourse that perfectly characterizes the worst form of discussion on the internet.

Ok, let us look at what you wrote:

> I have some questions about this "sting" that were unanswered in the article.

You don't ever ask any questions, and thus this is a rhetorical device to cast doubt on the article.

> It would be one thing if the academic were paid to have a certain opinion, its is another thing entirely to pay an academic to falsify research supporting a viewpoint they already hold. It reads as if the academics were paid to support a thesis with evidence. Once you are at a high enough academic level you should be able to write a paper arguing for and supporting a thesis whether or not you believe in that thesis on a personal level. It's important to sustain debate on all sides of an issue regardless of whether or not all of those sides are politically popular.

Straw man argument. Nobody is arguing against commercial funding for research or papers. The issue is deliberately concealing funding/independence and deliberately evading peer review.

> The great thing about publishing is that it gives other educated people a chance to rebut and question the argument.

Not when you deliberately avoid peer review.

> I also believe funding sources should be kept secret in some cases so that the paper or research can be judged on its own merit rather than judged based on the motivations of the entity funded it.

Ok, what are those cases? Oh right, you were just making a rhetorical point and don't have any actual examples.

Re: Undercover Activists Buy Off Professors in Climate Sting

#58
post #19

Wonder if anyone is going to do the opposite - try to buy off pro-global-warming professor to produce exaggerated doomsday prediction - and what the outcome is going to be.

Who could gain by doing something like that?

Anyone who stands to gain from carbon legislation - be they traders, taxing entities, or "remediation" consultants

Re: Undercover Activists Buy Off Professors in Climate Sting

#59
post #52
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how cleverly the authors tried to evade peer review, the evidence might have been quite flimsy to begin with. Peer review is the primary mechanism by which modern science verifies evidence, especially in fields like climate change where it's often very difficult to replicate another scientist's data. Evasion of peer review is like including an obfuscated blob in a critical part of some security software. It is…

Thats why you don't use that blob. I'm not saying that I trust the study, only that I don't see anything wrong with the author accepting money in exchange for writing it. Continuing the analogy, I don't see anything wrong with using or producing an obfuscated blob (in certain situations) but it wouldn't necessarily be wise to blindly trust it.

Overextending that analogy:

But the issue is the author effectively saying "this project's source code undergoes independent security audits prior to each release" and then being paid to include an un-audited blob.

In both cases person is being paid to deceitfully and deliberately abuse the trust placed in him.

Re: Undercover Activists Buy Off Professors in Climate Sting

#60

I see people arguing that there's nothing bad in this report. The shady, underhanded and dishonest context is so clear, I'm shocked to see so many such objections. The basic problem here is that two top academics are clearly selling the use of their credentials for clear commercial gain of a private company and using sophisticated means to hide the fact of such sale. That part is bad enough, even worse is the eager s…

What confuses me is that we all seem to have more-or-less the same moral compass when it comes to fiction. "The bad guy" is often going to extremes to prevent something from going public - dumping toxic waste in a river, taking bribes, selling a vote, torturing people in secret etc. Somehow it seems like these days, if someone gets caught doing these things in real life, nothing happens. Dumping toxic waste is pro-bu…

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