How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street • Hacker News Board

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#81

Post by bitwize » Tue, Dec 08, 2015, 9:03 PM UTC

Domenic_S wrote: post #70

bitwize wrote: post #52

I'd rather a million Elmo-centric Sesame Street episodes than even one episode of Barney or Caillou. That said, every kid needs some old-school, Elmo-free Sesame Street and Mister Rogers. (No, "Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood" is not the same; it's insipid and dumb by comparison.) Also, back in the day, Square One TV had a police-procedural parody called Mathnet that was still loads better than network TV's attempt at a…

> (No, "Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood" is not the same; it's insipid and dumb by comparison.) You might need to go rewatch some MRN. Fred Rogers is basically a saint, but MRN had plenty of insipidness of its own.

Fred Rogers did something that the producers of DTN haven't; he drew strict boundary lines between realism and make-believe, opening each Neighborhood of Make Believe segment with "Let's pretend..." This emphasis on exposing fiction as not real tightened as the show went on: Picture-Picture would eventually lose its "magical" properties, and in one episode Fred actually walked off set and introduced the kids to the cameramen, boom operators, and so forth.

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#82

Post by jessaustin » Tue, Dec 08, 2015, 9:06 PM UTC

norea-armozel wrote: post #33

Hah, I always preferred Grover. Then again Elmo wasn't a thing in 1983.

For me, Oscar was always the best. Not only did he get to live in a garbage can, but he also disagreed with everyone all the time. My hero.

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#83

Post by JeremyNT » Tue, Dec 08, 2015, 9:09 PM UTC

KirinDave wrote: post #73

bitwize wrote: post #52

I'd rather a million Elmo-centric Sesame Street episodes than even one episode of Barney or Caillou. That said, every kid needs some old-school, Elmo-free Sesame Street and Mister Rogers. (No, "Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood" is not the same; it's insipid and dumb by comparison.) Also, back in the day, Square One TV had a police-procedural parody called Mathnet that was still loads better than network TV's attempt at a…

> "Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood" is not the same; it's insipid and dumb by comparison.) Funny, because DTN is a award winning show with excellent writers and a body of research and consulting experts backing up their approach. It's only "insipid" if you try to analyze it as an adult. For kids, its engaging and important. Compare and contrast to other popular shows like Pororo that, while charming and well executed, re…

Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood is an astoundingly well envisioned show, and I'm really disappointed that the top comment here speaks ill of it. It expands upon the core of what Rogers was trying to teach and I find it to be a wonderfully fitting, modern successor. One of the joys I've experienced as a parent is in observing how well crafted and thoughtful DTN (and some other notable shows on PBS) have become, and how my daughter incorporates lessons learned from them in her daily life.

Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood (and early Sesame Street) surely deserve massive amounts of praise, but they were not formed perfectly, from whole cloth, as perfect educational programs. As with any other field, our knowledge of child psychology and early development is continuing to evolve, and there are brilliant people doing amazing work in this area.

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#84

Post by hitekker » Tue, Dec 08, 2015, 9:11 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #52

I'd rather a million Elmo-centric Sesame Street episodes than even one episode of Barney or Caillou. That said, every kid needs some old-school, Elmo-free Sesame Street and Mister Rogers. (No, "Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood" is not the same; it's insipid and dumb by comparison.) Also, back in the day, Square One TV had a police-procedural parody called Mathnet that was still loads better than network TV's attempt at a…

> Mister Rogers

For those who didn't grow up with Mister Rogers, I encourage you to watch this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKy7ljRr0AA, to get a sense of how effective he was as a speaker.

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#85

Post by Splines » Tue, Dec 08, 2015, 9:12 PM UTC

knicholes wrote: post #72

Splines wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would have been interesting to explore characters as they age throughout the show. Given the shows longevity it could have been really interesting to have a varied set of characters age right along with the viewers. Children could identify with Elmo for their entire lives. The Elmo of today would be finishing school and starting a job, and only visiting occasionally. He would take a very different role than that o…

Aren't these characters those like Maria, Gordon, and Mr. Hooper?

For logistical reasons, not really. It's easier to maintain puppets vs trying to keep the same human actors tied to the show.

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#86

Post by Jtsummers » Tue, Dec 08, 2015, 9:13 PM UTC

na85 wrote: post #77

bitwize wrote: post #52

I'd rather a million Elmo-centric Sesame Street episodes than even one episode of Barney or Caillou. That said, every kid needs some old-school, Elmo-free Sesame Street and Mister Rogers. (No, "Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood" is not the same; it's insipid and dumb by comparison.) Also, back in the day, Square One TV had a police-procedural parody called Mathnet that was still loads better than network TV's attempt at a…

The Muppet Show needs to make a comeback. It was like SNL for kids.

There's a new one, though I haven't watched it. I've heard very mixed reviews from other fans of the original and the 90s version.

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#87

Post by grogenaut » Tue, Dec 08, 2015, 9:21 PM UTC

Summary: These things I loved as a kid are now slightly different and therefor RUINED. In an unrelated note, get off of my lawn you damned kids.

Seriously, more hard hitting journalism by the folks that brought us "Snaktaku reviews the Big Mac" and "We really pissed off some game devs and had to buy our own copy of games" authors.

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#88

Post by bitwize » Tue, Dec 08, 2015, 9:25 PM UTC

JeremyNT wrote: post #83

KirinDave wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood" is not the same; it's insipid and dumb by comparison.) Funny, because DTN is a award winning show with excellent writers and a body of research and consulting experts backing up their approach. It's only "insipid" if you try to analyze it as an adult. For kids, its engaging and important. Compare and contrast to other popular shows like Pororo that, while charming and well executed, re…

Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood is an astoundingly well envisioned show, and I'm really disappointed that the top comment here speaks ill of it. It expands upon the core of what Rogers was trying to teach and I find it to be a wonderfully fitting, modern successor. One of the joys I've experienced as a parent is in observing how well crafted and thoughtful DTN (and some other notable shows on PBS) have become, and how my…

I don't think DTN is necessarily bad on its own merits at all. Certainly there is much worse: Dora, Barney, Caillou, to name three. But compared to its predecessor it pales, significantly.

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#89

Post by aczerepinski » Tue, Dec 08, 2015, 9:35 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #52

I'd rather a million Elmo-centric Sesame Street episodes than even one episode of Barney or Caillou. That said, every kid needs some old-school, Elmo-free Sesame Street and Mister Rogers. (No, "Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood" is not the same; it's insipid and dumb by comparison.) Also, back in the day, Square One TV had a police-procedural parody called Mathnet that was still loads better than network TV's attempt at a…

Peg + Cat is a fairly intelligent PBS kids show. Lots of exposure to math & music concepts.

Re: How Elmo Ruined Sesame Street

#90

Post by mfoy_ » Tue, Dec 08, 2015, 9:38 PM UTC

hitekker wrote: post #84

bitwize wrote: post #52

I'd rather a million Elmo-centric Sesame Street episodes than even one episode of Barney or Caillou. That said, every kid needs some old-school, Elmo-free Sesame Street and Mister Rogers. (No, "Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood" is not the same; it's insipid and dumb by comparison.) Also, back in the day, Square One TV had a police-procedural parody called Mathnet that was still loads better than network TV's attempt at a…

> Mister Rogers For those who didn't grow up with Mister Rogers, I encourage you to watch this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKy7ljRr0AA , to get a sense of how effective he was as a speaker.

He must be rolling in his grave with the way violence has waxed and mentionable, manageable feelings have waned. I haven't watched any cartoons recently but it seems the trend is toward rejection and denial of feelings rather than acceptance and understanding.

He even brought up mental health (this being the late 60s) which is remarkable as there hasn't been much focus on mental health until very recently (and still not enough).

I wish I had grown up with his show, I don't remember if we just didn't get it or if I just always missed it but it seems he had a good thing going on.