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Mozilla’s newest app perfectly captures the ethical dilemma of ad-blocking

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Re: Mozilla’s newest app perfectly captures the ethical dilemma of ad-blocking

#71
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, today's cable doesn't feel that different; I just start watching the show a bit later and fast-forward the ads at 32x.

Small reminder that cable's main selling point when starting out was the removal of ads.

Not around here (non-US country), it already came with ads. The point was always the extra content, since we only had four OTA channels.

Re: Mozilla’s newest app perfectly captures the ethical dilemma of ad-blocking

#72
Ad blocking isn't just about improving "user experience." Current ad providers are so widely negligent and irresponsible with the content they allow on their networks that they are a tremendous security risk these days. It takes a truly incredible amount of hypocrisy or ignorance to rely on a known malware vector for your income and then accuse people of being "unethical" for protecting themselves.

Re: Mozilla’s newest app perfectly captures the ethical dilemma of ad-blocking

#73
post #34
post #9

Why is there no opt-in ad blocker? "eff these guys i'm blocking their ads." Or like if your resources go over some threshold they get blocked? I want to punish bad actors, not all.

Opera used to have opt-in content blocking and I used it for years without any trouble. I only blocked annoying ads on sites that I visit more than once. Of course it meant that I disabled whole ad networks sometimes, but that's entirely their fault. In the end, I was shown many ads while browsing. That being said, Opera had a proper pop-up blocker and didn't implement every junk feature from javascript (prevent clos…

Opera 7/8 was way ahead of it's time. The tabbed interface was faster than Firefox, and better implemented, because Shift+Click opened new tabs, pretty much how I learned about tabs.

Re: Mozilla’s newest app perfectly captures the ethical dilemma of ad-blocking

#74

I'll be contrarian here, since there are many people claiming the solution is paywalls (which people also whine about). (and BTW, the opinion that follows has nothing to do with my employer, Google, and their business model) I grew up poor, my family didn't have disposable income for buying media. Everything I got, came from ad supported radio, TV, or public libraries. I used to call into radio stations to ask them t…

Its not a choice between a world of paywalls and a world of ads -- closed, for-paying-users services are going to exist whether or not ad-based services also exist. And, open services without distinct ads (which may themselves be ads, on some level) that are paid for by someone other than the direct user are going to exist. The real question is in what circumstances, and to what extent, are services with intrusive ads disrupting the main content acceptable alternatives to those other two models, not an exclusive choice of a world with one model or a world with one of the other models.

> I don't really want the Web to turn into a giant Apple Store, where every link, I must face the cognitive burden of paying for it before I know that I even want it.

Life is that way: even with "free with ads" content, you are accepting a cost for the content before you can be certain that the benefit justifies it. (Heck, there's an opportunity cost even with "free without ads" content.)

If you just mean the friction of active choice with each click, well, even in a payment model you could create a system with configurable passive thresholds and lumped periodic payments where the cognitive burden of an active purchase decision was avoided for people who preferred to do so.

Re: Mozilla’s newest app perfectly captures the ethical dilemma of ad-blocking

#75

I'll be contrarian here, since there are many people claiming the solution is paywalls (which people also whine about). (and BTW, the opinion that follows has nothing to do with my employer, Google, and their business model) I grew up poor, my family didn't have disposable income for buying media. Everything I got, came from ad supported radio, TV, or public libraries. I used to call into radio stations to ask them t…

The solution, as always, will lie somewhere on the axis between allowing advertisers to run rampant on your page with obnoxious, harmful ads, and content providers charging you.

Perhaps we'll all agree to unblock a small part of our pages if we get promised that the content would be tasteful, and controlled. Perhaps I'll turn of my blockers if I know I don't have a dozen 3rd party cookies installed every time I read the news. But knowing advertisers (I used to work for your employer's competitor BTW) this will not hapen anytime soon.

Re: Mozilla’s newest app perfectly captures the ethical dilemma of ad-blocking

#76
I fully realize that advertising, whether is direct, indirect or second-order is what keeps companies in business and keep paying us. I'm fine with ads as long as they're static images and/or text. When you lose me is when websites keep loading up script after script of some CPU hogging bullcrap that tanks my browser perf; then we have a problem. Google is bad when it comes to this, but not as bad as the Taboolas and Perions who are so in your face that all you want to do is block these idiots from ever sending a byte over your network.

Re: Mozilla’s newest app perfectly captures the ethical dilemma of ad-blocking

#77
post #31

I really love to be called anti-ethical by advertisers. Last time I watched TV I saw ads that told me: to drink unhealthy sugar beverages, that my son would be ashamed if I have an old and cheap car, that I should use a financial service that would give a terrible return on investment, that happiness is the same than buying things, alcohol is to only way to have fun. Sure, I have no ethics because I want to control w…

OK, hyperbole aside, if you really want or care enough to solve this problem, you should refuse to visit/watch content with ads. Support people who use alternate business models. Content creators are people who want to get paid; if you show them an alternate way to succeed, they're going to want it.

Re: Mozilla’s newest app perfectly captures the ethical dilemma of ad-blocking

#78
Stats on this article...

With uBlock turned on and JS blocked: 65 requests, 2,015 KB, 1.73 seconds

Without blocking: 391 requests, 7,354 KB, 54.57 seconds

In each case I can read the article. The latter case uses 3.5x bandwidth.

I hope news sites find that the reason their print ads fetch more money is because it's prestigious to have a newspaper ad. Web ads are junky. Sites should vet ads themselves or use a reputable firm and work with advertisers to place tasteful, inline, plain html ads.

Re: Mozilla’s newest app perfectly captures the ethical dilemma of ad-blocking

#79
post #31

I really love to be called anti-ethical by advertisers. Last time I watched TV I saw ads that told me: to drink unhealthy sugar beverages, that my son would be ashamed if I have an old and cheap car, that I should use a financial service that would give a terrible return on investment, that happiness is the same than buying things, alcohol is to only way to have fun. Sure, I have no ethics because I want to control w…

I can't imagine feeling so entitled that I would argue that people owe me web and TV content. I think that your option if you don't like the advertising that is supporting a service is to not use that service. If you feel strongly about it you could even tell the station/site the reason you are no longer using their service. I really don't understand the argument that "I don't like how they want me to pay for this se…

no one is 'stealing' anything and elevating the notion of adblocking from 'unethical' (it isn't) to 'theft' (which it definitely isn't) is exactly the sort of language-twisting that corporations attempt to employ and legitimise to where we don't even think about it.

as many others will explain on HN: i own my hardware; the code i choose to run or not run on my machine is my choice. got a problem with that? feel free to shut down your web site or put it behind a paywall. i have a whole shelf of books that i should be reading anyway rather than surfing the web. i won't miss your web site one bit. i promise.

Re: Mozilla’s newest app perfectly captures the ethical dilemma of ad-blocking

#80

I'll be contrarian here, since there are many people claiming the solution is paywalls (which people also whine about). (and BTW, the opinion that follows has nothing to do with my employer, Google, and their business model) I grew up poor, my family didn't have disposable income for buying media. Everything I got, came from ad supported radio, TV, or public libraries. I used to call into radio stations to ask them t…

Its not a choice between a world of paywalls and a world of ads -- closed, for-paying-users services are going to exist whether or not ad-based services also exist. And, open services without distinct ads (which may themselves be ads, on some level) that are paid for by someone other than the direct user are going to exist. The real question is in what circumstances, and to what extent, are services with intrusive ad…

Yes, there's an opportunity cost for content, but different people have different marginal utility for their dollars vs their time.

For children, or the unemployed, the marginal utility of a dollar is quite high, but free time is cheap.

Likewise, the unauthenticated, un-paid-for Web has permitted frictionless composition and repurpose of content without the need to 'do deals'. Beyond just the consumer issue, a non-Ad supported web would have severely limited its evolution, by forcing content to require authentication.

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