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France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

arstechnica.co.uk

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Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#261

Post by dang »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #240
dang wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the ugly truth is that communal punishment is the only form of punishment that truly works I appreciate from your other comments that your views are nuanced, but posting something this glib about something this horrific crosses the line here.

> I appreciate from your other comments that your views are nuanced, but posting something this glib about something this horrific crosses the line here. Here's the thing. Eventually, Islamic extremism WILL disappear. Today, tomorrow, or in 100 years. The only question is how that happens. My wife is Muslim (and dark-skinned). I married her in an Islamic ceremony (meaning I became Muslim, at least in the eyes of some…

I appreciate all of that, but calling for communal punishment with a bogus claim that it's the only thing that will work (something you can't possibly know) still crosses the line here.

It shouldn't be hard to see why. Imagine reading HN and hearing your fellow users call for you to be punished for crimes you are at least as aghast at, and personally more likely to suffer from, than the rest of the HN population is.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#262

Post by gkya »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #251
gkya wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, plenty of people do think that Erdogan is strongly sympathetic to ISIS. I do not believe that he has emotions. It's all money and power, IMO. And he is as representative of his people as Hitler is of today's Germans. And it's not that Europe is enemies with him. > Can blame all you want, but what's done is done. Then you should have the same approach to terrorist attacks too. See, ideas have the bad side effe…

> I do not believe that he has emotions. It's all money and power, IMO. If it's all money and power, he's throwing his lot in with the wrong players IMO. > Then you should have the same approach to terrorist attacks too. I would be glad to think the same of terrorist attacks. Unfortunately they're an almost daily occurrence. > You didn't exterminate Germans for the bad they did. Revenge will not bring peace. It'll br…

> I would be glad to think the same of terrorist attacks. Unfortunately they're an almost daily occurrence.

Not in the Europe. That's our problem.

> Yes it will. And if we did nothing today, Islamists would still be seeking revenge tomorrow.

To whom? From whom does the west want revenge. This is the question. And apparently there are some people who'd say from all muslims, or from all arabs. You, and the other guy who responded me seem to be of that ilk. There are muslims like you, who seek a revenge from the whole non-muslim. We call these fundamentalist, radicals, etc. These are identical to you, with the difference of possessing less power. I hope all the people I refer here die painful deaths, that you wish upon innocents.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#263

Post by Mikeb85 »

gkya wrote: post #262
Mikeb85 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not believe that he has emotions. It's all money and power, IMO. If it's all money and power, he's throwing his lot in with the wrong players IMO. > Then you should have the same approach to terrorist attacks too. I would be glad to think the same of terrorist attacks. Unfortunately they're an almost daily occurrence. > You didn't exterminate Germans for the bad they did. Revenge will not bring peace. It'll br…

> I would be glad to think the same of terrorist attacks. Unfortunately they're an almost daily occurrence. Not in the Europe. That's our problem. > Yes it will. And if we did nothing today, Islamists would still be seeking revenge tomorrow. To whom? From whom does the west want revenge. This is the question. And apparently there are some people who'd say from all muslims, or from all arabs. You, and the other guy wh…

> I hope all the people I refer here die painful deaths

:0

You're not making a great case here...

> that you wish upon innocents

Show me where I've wished bodily harm to people who are innocent. Hopefully what you're saying is a language misunderstanding, I do tend to use some flowery language when writing in English...

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#264

Post by Mikeb85 »

dang wrote: post #261
Mikeb85 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I appreciate from your other comments that your views are nuanced, but posting something this glib about something this horrific crosses the line here. Here's the thing. Eventually, Islamic extremism WILL disappear. Today, tomorrow, or in 100 years. The only question is how that happens. My wife is Muslim (and dark-skinned). I married her in an Islamic ceremony (meaning I became Muslim, at least in the eyes of some…

I appreciate all of that, but calling for communal punishment with a bogus claim that it's the only thing that will work (something you can't possibly know) still crosses the line here. It shouldn't be hard to see why. Imagine reading HN and hearing your fellow users call for you to be punished for crimes you are at least as aghast at, and personally more likely to suffer from, than the rest of the HN population is.

Well today Trump called for all Muslim travel to the US to halt. My wife and I travel to the US every year. If Trump gets elected, we won't be able to.

So 'collective punishment' is already happening.

All this bullshit is already affecting our lives. We're not part of any Muslim community, but my wife has a Muslim name, and public photos exist of my Muslim wedding. My wife's been told to leave the country by a red-neck. I've seen confederate flags flying here (in Canada...). Up until recent events, Canada's been pretty tolerant. Now it's anything but. It's getting harder to play down terrorist attacks as simply an 'aberration' or an 'isolated incident'.

I'm being real, talking about real things. France woke up to the FN leading the elections. Hollande closing down a few Mosques and banning religious symbols is small potatoes compared to could happen in the not to distant future... Maybe I'm sensationalist and too controversial. I prefer the socialist dream to the conservative dream. But right now we're headed towards a bleak future...

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#265

Post by chii »

GrumpyBen wrote: post #226
gotchange wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it should be the other way around. You have to get a verdict first in order to detain them and not let them do the job for you and make them go through hardships for a redress and emergency laws are not just or fair to entertain them .

This is temporary, the country is in "state of emergency", that gives the government and the police special powers to reestablish order. I think that was justified after the attacks but I would oppose it if the government wants to extend it past 3 months.

But the police is taking advantage and using these powers to detain people that otherwise they don't have the right to detain, such as env activists.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#266

Post by calandoa »

GrumpyBen wrote: post #97
gotchange wrote: post #37

The French regime again showing its ugly authoritarian and statist face with these draconian bills. It wasn't enough for them to put environmentalists under house arrest and subject innocent people to humiliating mandatory reporting to different police stations 3 times a day or obligatory curfew for certain people or neighborhoods without any judicial oversight. [0] I knew it from the beginning that they would abuse…

The police found more than 300 illegal weapons during their searches. People that were put under house arrests have a file on them because of their links with terrorists or terrorist organizations. I don't feel the government is abusing the state of emergency, I just feel they should have done all this before the attacks.

> The police found more than 300 illegal weapons during their searches.

Looks like the newspapers you are reading are omitting to mention that a lot of weapons found are neutralized and belong to collectors who just do not have the official certificate for neutralization: http://www.larep.fr/loiret/actualite/pays/gatinais/montargis... http://www.larep.fr/loiret/actualite/pays/gatinais/montargis...

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#267

Post by calandoa »

GrumpyBen wrote: post #115
stefantalpalaru wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> terrorist organizations Like those pesky ecologists that endanger the state by stopping economic growth and slowing down job creation at the cost of increased pollution, right?

They're not ecologists, they're anti-globalization anarchists that protested against a new airport by destroying shops in downtown Nantes. They recently threw at the police candles that people left at the memorial for the Paris attacks. I consider myself an ecologist but I have no sympathy for these people.

> They recently threw at the police candles that people left at the memorial for the Paris attacks What I see is people quietly holding their hands around the memorial, and cops coming and stamping everything to get them out.

http://www.taranisnews.com/post/134413704538/first-person-vi... (~16')

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#269

Post by alexqgb »

gotchange wrote: post #250
alexqgb wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's unquestionable that radical Islam is an aggressor Sure, but why stop there instead of going just a tiny bit deeper and identifying the money layer? You'll find it has a lot less to do with religion and a lot more to do with efforts by the House of Saud to maintain an increasingly dubious hold on worldly power. You'll also find a rat's nest of illiberal interests from nominally liberal countries with an interest…

Make no mistake Iran is a dangerous state too and Shiite Islam can be weaponized too and could prove much more lethal than Sunni Islam given that religious Shiites usually follow their "Pope" or Supreme Leader blindly. Just imagine an army of 500 mln or so that can be mobilized with a single fiery speech or declaration. Actually, that kind of empire or army is the wildest wet dream that Sunni radicals could have.

That's a hypothetical with a significant number of non-trivial barriers to realization, not an actual situation with a long a well-documented history. You've also missed the larger point, which has to do with the deeply cynical and reckless policies of Western elites with regard to the KSA.

Finally, your numbers are absurd. 500 million? Shia? In round numbers, you're off by...a lot. ~180 million is closer to the mark, and the idea that this entire population, very young and old included, is one speech away from becoming a ferocious army is beyond insane.

I'm sorry, but the way you combined deep ignorance and wild speculation with plain bad information was ugly enough. Finishing your remarks with a needless bit of vulgarity puts them way over the top.

Seriously, this is the kind of garbage you expect to find at Trump rallies, not HN.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#270

Post by alexqgb »

cryoshon wrote: post #237
alexqgb wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's unquestionable that radical Islam is an aggressor Sure, but why stop there instead of going just a tiny bit deeper and identifying the money layer? You'll find it has a lot less to do with religion and a lot more to do with efforts by the House of Saud to maintain an increasingly dubious hold on worldly power. You'll also find a rat's nest of illiberal interests from nominally liberal countries with an interest…

Yes, this is my perspective as well, but for ease of conversation I didn't mention it here-- people get very upset. But take it a step further. Who funds Saudi Arabia, and why? Who backs radical Sunnis, and why? Who backs the radical Shia? Geopolitical problems have many causes and symptoms which can grow into entire pathologies in their own right when they get really out of control, as the West's idiotic power strug…

Who funds Saudi Arabia? Nobody "funds" Saudi Arabia. It's a sovereign nation with massive reserves of oil and independent wealth, not some Silicon Valley start up. To the extent that the money comes from somewhere, it comes from all of us, because we need to get to work and gas costs money.

The point is that the US has its own set of deeply vested interests in these markets, and they're more than willing to tolerate what the Saudis are doing to underwrite jihadi terrorism and the Wahhabi strain of Islam that animates it if the alternative involves seriously consideration of changes to the way the developed world produces and consumes the energy it depends on.

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