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France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

arstechnica.co.uk

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Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#251

Post by Mikeb85 »

gkya wrote: post #238
Mikeb85 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Turkey, we've seen on TV or heard of many families turning in their children many many times. And that's why there's still hope for Turkey. > In fact, the suicide-bomber-brothers who killed upwards of a hundred victims in Ankara were reported to be islamic state militants multiple times by their parents. They've reported them many times to different authorities. Well, plenty of people do think that Erdogan is st…

> Well, plenty of people do think that Erdogan is strongly sympathetic to ISIS. I do not believe that he has emotions. It's all money and power, IMO. And he is as representative of his people as Hitler is of today's Germans. And it's not that Europe is enemies with him. > Can blame all you want, but what's done is done. Then you should have the same approach to terrorist attacks too. See, ideas have the bad side effe…

> I do not believe that he has emotions. It's all money and power, IMO.

If it's all money and power, he's throwing his lot in with the wrong players IMO.

> Then you should have the same approach to terrorist attacks too.

I would be glad to think the same of terrorist attacks. Unfortunately they're an almost daily occurrence.

> You didn't exterminate Germans for the bad they did. Revenge will not bring peace. It'll bring more revenge.

Yes it will. And if we did nothing today, Islamists would still be seeking revenge tomorrow.

> It is Istanbul now. Who knows what'll happen tomorrow?

Here's 2 predictions.

Option 1: Erdogan gets voted out, and it returns to be a vibrant world capital.

Option 2: Erdogan stays the course, pisses enough people off that NATO sells him out to the Russians who, along with the Greeks, would love to 'liberate' Constantinople...

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#252

Post by [deleted] »

rwmj wrote: post #34
Angostura wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are huge numbers of laws in place to try and minimise road deaths, including compulsory licensing of people found competent to drive, speed limits, compulsory periodic testing of cars for roadworthiness. So you know the answer to the first part of your question.

Sure - but to really crack down on road deaths, how about declaring a state of emergency that prevents anyone from driving at all? If you understand why that would be stupid, you'll understand why trying to introduce the GFW of China to France is a bad idea.

[deleted]

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#253

Post by hokkos »

rorykoehler wrote: post #25
sailingparrot wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please calm down with the generalizations. 1. This is a leaked document, not an official one. 2. This would need to be adopted by the National Assembly, Senate, and Ethic Commission to be effective. 3. France didn't roll back on it's promise to accept Syrian refugees like others have done. Yes it is worrying, but everything is not black and white.

They did just voted in their equivalent of the Nazi party in the regional elections though so let's wait and see... Edit: correction... vote not over yet but it's not looking good.

Less nazi than your main republican candidate.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#254

Post by curryst »

progrn wrote: post #129
curryst wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have a tendency to brush those deaths off as "your own fault", or one off accidents. The media hyperinflation of events doesn't help either. It's actually really interesting to look at studies measuring people's relative evaluations of risk. One tidbit is that back around 9/11 and for a long while thereafter people believed that flying was more dangerous than driving, despite that being very untrue.

Is it still untrue if you do not drive drunk?

Yes, that was for sober driving. NOVA has a pretty good article on it at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/how-risky-is-flying.html.

Their chart is slightly different from mine, in that they're counting deaths per vehicle mile rather than deaths per passenger mile, which greatly favors cars because of their lower passenger capacity.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#255

Post by cobaltblue »

vmorgulis wrote: post #210
cobaltblue wrote: post #205

Europe is doing all it can to produce a new Hitler. The anti-Muslim rhetoric can be insane at times, but it's no lie that the imports are from a very different culture and are unlikely to assimilate to a more western one, especially when they outbreed their western counterparts. What concerns me is that all this money and rage will be spent in reaction to these tragic events that kill either less than 100, around 100…

Look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_J... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_J...

Nothing on those lists contradicts what I said, but thanks for the links.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#256

Post by Mikeb85 »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #249
Mikeb85 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, Breivik himself stated he's not a Christian, claiming allegiance to Odin. Second, if someone knew of his plans and didn't turn him in, they're guilty of complicity under current laws in most western countries. Third, far-right groups are regularly 'punished' (ie. Prosecuted under various laws) for the actions of their members, even if it doesn't comprise all their members. As are gang members, etc... Ha…

> First of all, Breivik himself stated he's not a Christian, claiming allegiance to Odin. I was mostly using Breivik as a joke, I don't care for his beliefs as they have no root in reality. But for the record, Breivik has said a lot of things, indeed that he was not a religious man, indeed allegiance to Odin, but also statements like 'I consider myself to be 100 percent Christian.' He contradicted himself on many dif…

I'll link you to one of my other posts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10692855 I'm not without a stake in this either...

> You bring up aiding and abetting multiple times and then end your post. I don't see your point.

When the authorities recently raided various domiciles and Mosques in France, they found a bunch of weapons. Including some stashed in a Mosque. They found extremist propaganda. Some of the Paris attackers were known to police ("fiche S").

Up until now, they let these people be. Maybe they assumed they wouldn't actually carry out their radical desires. It's hard to believe no one in their community knew about their radicalism. They were given a chance to sort it out themselves. The west has been tolerant enough of those with divergent beliefs, assuming that they'll eventually assimilate.

> Now, how that in any way reflects on the responsibility of say my father, who stays awake at night because he can't sleep, saddened about the loss of innocent life due to the recent terrorist attacks (I'm not making up a sob story here, take it how you want it), a man who happens to be a muslim, is beyond me.

Is his son a terrorist? Is his brother? To be honest, I have no doubt he'd be even more upset if you were.

And I don't think he should be punished. What is 'fair' and 'just' in life is different than reality. Is it fair that innocent French people died in the Bataclan? Is it fair that Muslims died in the Bataclan (because there WERE Muslim names on the list of the dead). Is it fair that most of ISIS' victims are Muslims? Is it fair that Saudi Arabia is beheading and dropping bombs on Shias?

Today, just now, Donald Trump called for no Muslims to be allowed into the US. Is that fair? Yesterday, the Front National had a very strong result in France, and they propose much of the same (if not worse).

I'm calling for some sort of responsibility on the part of Muslims for people who become radicalised within their communities. Maybe some of my posts are controversial and maybe I use too much hyperbole. Maybe I'm too cynical about the world.

But the rise of the FN, and other extreme-right parties does have a precedent in history. It is history repeating itself. What comes after is worse...

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#257

Post by alephnil »

lucb1e wrote: post #163
alephnil wrote: post #128

It is not the first time France has done things like this. In the 90s, France outlawed encryption completely, with prison sentence for breaking the ban. As tools like ssh became common, this became less and less practical. For example the supercomputer center at my university had to develop a one time password scheme for the French users (printed out and sent to them by mail), since ssh was strictly forbidden there.

I'd like to learn more, source/reference?

For the crypto ban, I was unable to find reputable references. I found only one from the Register, which I consider less than reputable (and the article in question is quite inaccurate, for example they managed to call Minister of Finance at the time, Dominique Strauss-Kahn Domenica, and refer to him as "she"). The factual content seems to be right otherwise, and 1999 is about the right timeframe.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/01/15/france_to_end_severe...

As you can see, you could be sentenced to 6 months of jail and fined nearly $90000 for using encryption.

The one-time password telnet demon was developed at a university in Scandinavia before the ban ended in the second part of the 90s. This was a solution they weren't proud of, so naturally there wasn't written anything down about it, but it was considered better than pure telnet and it kept French users out of trouble (I hesitate to say the right side of the law, given its stupidity).

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#258

Post by gotchange »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #256
IkmoIkmo wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First of all, Breivik himself stated he's not a Christian, claiming allegiance to Odin. I was mostly using Breivik as a joke, I don't care for his beliefs as they have no root in reality. But for the record, Breivik has said a lot of things, indeed that he was not a religious man, indeed allegiance to Odin, but also statements like 'I consider myself to be 100 percent Christian.' He contradicted himself on many dif…

I'll link you to one of my other posts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10692855 I'm not without a stake in this either... > You bring up aiding and abetting multiple times and then end your post. I don't see your point. When the authorities recently raided various domiciles and Mosques in France, they found a bunch of weapons. Including some stashed in a Mosque. They found extremist propaganda. Some of the Pari…

Call it a conspiracy theory or what not but the rise of the far right looks manufactured to me. There are some really important people want RW stooges in positions of power for their future plans and they know very well how to make them appealing to the electorate by making their opponents look soft on issues of security and law & order. All it would take just to turn a blind eye to ISIS till the threat gets out of hand and then let one or two attacks pass through for the maximum impact on the unwary public.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#259

Post by ethbro »

gkya wrote: post #234
ethbro wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget that the Roman Empire was not without its atrocities in the name of the Greater Good. Bad often has to be done so that More Bad for More People won't happen. And before we catigate Europe, let's not forget that there are a substantial number of sectarian and ethnic minority/majority tensions even inside of the Muslim governed world. No one is without blood on their hands.

> No one is without blood on their hands. I concur. I just picked the side of the rather-under-represented. Neither am I a Rome or Ancient Greece fan. > Bad often has to be done so that More Bad for More People won't happen. Bad will always bring more bad with it. You can try to kill all the muslims, you'll end up with another terrorist sect, just from a different religion. Or you'll terrorise other moderate muslims,…

> Bad will always bring more bad with it

Eh, we'll agree to disagree there. Find me some good in this world that isn't backed by bad somewhere in history, and I'll show you a situation where pacifist lives could have been saved with a more aggressive approach.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#260

Post by rubyfan »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #100
ultramancool wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm getting really afraid of these authoritarian opportunists. Seems much more likely to have an impact on my life than terrorist attacks at least...

I'm genuinely more afraid of the people who are afraid right now than I am of the people who they think I should be afraid of. The anti-Muslim rhetoric (e.g. yelling "All Muslims are terrorists" at town meetings) scares the hell out of me. How easily could that attitude be shifted towards any arbitrary group with just one or two tragic events?

> How easily could that attitude be shifted towards any arbitrary group with just one or two tragic events?

It will be much easier with more unchecked authoritarian law in place.

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