Schwarzenegger: I don’t give a damn if we agree about climate change • Hacker News Board

Re: Schwarzenegger: I don’t give a damn if we agree about climate change

#21

Post by merpnderp » Mon, Dec 07, 2015, 9:09 PM UTC

Oletros wrote: post #16

buckbova wrote: post #2

If I believe your number: > First - do you believe it is acceptable that 7 million people die every year from pollution? Answer this, how many of that 7 million year over year die from carbon dioxide? This is the major issue with deniers. Carbon dioxide != pollution. Edit: I don't know anyone not in favor of clean energy. I know plenty who warn of government overreaching using climate change scare tactics. You want t…

You're mixing pollution with green house gases

I think it's a valid point since the EPA labels CO2 as pollution.

[EDIT] Since I'm getting so many down votes, thought I'd link the EPA calling CO2 pollution. http://www.epa.gov/cleanpowerplan

Re: Schwarzenegger: I don’t give a damn if we agree about climate change

#22

Post by srameshc » Mon, Dec 07, 2015, 9:09 PM UTC

saosebastiao wrote: post #14

Door 2 is also likely fatal. Most electric motors produce ozone :)

I just found this link http://www.science20.com/news_articles/solving_ozone_problem... . I am sure this will be a problem for many years but it will be addressed. The problem on the other hand is the pollutants from automobiles. If someone is driving a car in New Delhi with windows down for few hours, can feel the grease from engine fumes on face and nostrils. Clean your nose and that is when you realize how terrible the traffic is. The problem is not with people who are driving the cars. There are pedestrians and people living off streets who breath that air all day. It scares me to see a child breath that air as I am tend to fall sick with throat ruptured even after a day on the road inside a car. That would hopefully change around the world if we have electric vehicles.

Re: Schwarzenegger: I don’t give a damn if we agree about climate change

#23

Post by stcredzero » Mon, Dec 07, 2015, 9:11 PM UTC

saosebastiao wrote: post #14

Door 2 is also likely fatal. Most electric motors produce ozone :)

You are most certainly technically incorrect, which is the worst kind of incorrect. It would take very very high levels of ozone to be anywhere near as promptly fatal as carbon monoxide poisoning from running a gasoline powered car inside a closed garage. As far as I know, no one commits suicide by running an electric motor in a closed room. Ozone causes oxidative damage to tissues, including the delicate tissues of your lungs. Carbon monoxide shuts down the oxygen carrying function your hemoglobin. You can be killed by unnoticeable levels of carbon monoxide. It's highly unlikely you won't be able to sense dangerous levels of ozone. In fact, it's likely to be unpleasant enough to drive you from the room. Whereas CO makes you feel sleepy as you slip down to unconsciousness forever.

(EDIT: That said, ozone in rather small amounts can be quite damaging to long term health.)

Re: Schwarzenegger: I don’t give a damn if we agree about climate change

#24

Post by justicezyx » Mon, Dec 07, 2015, 9:12 PM UTC

merpnderp wrote: post #18

I like that he makes it more about the economics of saving lives, which should be the primary argument. But that is a tricky problem since we have 4 million a year dying from indoor cooking smoke, and millions more from other various aspects of extreme poverty. Most of which would be a greater ameliorated by cheap coal plants. Cheap coals plants are horrible polluters, but they are cheap, aren't as bad as indoor poll…

Typical logical flaw of applying the argument to various other argually retard comparison.

The comparison here is between clean energy and fossil fuel. It has little to do with cooking, or extreme poverty.

Re: Schwarzenegger: I don’t give a damn if we agree about climate change

#25

Post by stcredzero » Mon, Dec 07, 2015, 9:13 PM UTC

nmridul wrote: post #12

The global warming brigade hijacked the pollution issue. There always will be a debate on global warming. So keeping global warming as the prime focus of fossil fuel usage kept people divided. If pollution was the prime focus from day one, then more push would have been given to renewable. Maybe, Arnold is able to bring more people to think in this direction.

There always will be a debate on global warming.

I doubt this is true without the caveat: ...so long as the energy industry keeps funding an opposition.

Re: Schwarzenegger: I don’t give a damn if we agree about climate change

#26

Post by Claudus » Mon, Dec 07, 2015, 9:14 PM UTC

1. "WHO estimates indoor air pollution was linked to 4.3 million deaths in 2012 in households cooking over coal, wood and biomass stoves."

If the majority of the "7 million" die from indoor cooking, It seems like it would be better to focus our resources on developing infrastructure in SE Asia so that every household has electricity and modern cooking appliances.

Re: Schwarzenegger: I don’t give a damn if we agree about climate change

#27

Post by jtolmar » Mon, Dec 07, 2015, 9:14 PM UTC

thieving_magpie wrote: post #5

Regarding the third question, it's a nice analogy there but is he suggesting that electric power is predominantly clean? Across the US, 37.4% of our electric power comes from coal. I don't want to detract from the overall message because it is clear and accurate but I think it's important to think about how electric power is currently generated. Coal statistic pulled from: http://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/20…

With gas burning cars we have two problems - pollution from cars and pollution from electrical plants. With electric cars we only have one problem - the power plants. It increases the magnitude of that problem, but the total complexity goes down.

Re: Schwarzenegger: I don’t give a damn if we agree about climate change

#28

Post by redblacktree » Mon, Dec 07, 2015, 9:15 PM UTC

mmanfrin wrote: post #10

thieving_magpie wrote: post #5

Regarding the third question, it's a nice analogy there but is he suggesting that electric power is predominantly clean? Across the US, 37.4% of our electric power comes from coal. I don't want to detract from the overall message because it is clear and accurate but I think it's important to think about how electric power is currently generated. Coal statistic pulled from: http://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/20…

Coal as a source of our electric power has plummeted in a decade, being taken up mostly by natural gas (but also in small part by solar/wind). Additionally, there is no change needed for an end consumer if the power they use is switched to a different source, whereas to switch a fuel for cars means switching cars. The drive to get people on electric cars means that switching everything off of fossil fuels is a matter…

I would be very interested in an all-electric minivan with enough range for my frequent 600-mile trips to my wife's home town. Sadly, this does not yet exist.

Re: Schwarzenegger: I don’t give a damn if we agree about climate change

#29

Post by beerbajay » Mon, Dec 07, 2015, 9:15 PM UTC

nmridul wrote: post #12

The global warming brigade hijacked the pollution issue. There always will be a debate on global warming. So keeping global warming as the prime focus of fossil fuel usage kept people divided. If pollution was the prime focus from day one, then more push would have been given to renewable. Maybe, Arnold is able to bring more people to think in this direction.

I think you're ignoring the profit to be made in extending the time between now and when ANY kind of regulation (pollution OR climate change) kicks in. Industries have historically avoided responsibility for various kinds of pollution by using the same FUD tactics that are used in the climate change "debate".

Re: Schwarzenegger: I don’t give a damn if we agree about climate change

#30

Post by steven2012 » Mon, Dec 07, 2015, 9:15 PM UTC

I absolutely don't believe that human-created CO2 emissions cause global warming. However, I consider myself a staunch environmentalist.

I believe we should be doing whatever we can to control pollution. It sickens me that factories pump out pollution, that we can barely eat fish anymore because of all the garbage and poisons we pump into our oceans. I think we need very strict controls on every form of pollution as well as garbage and creating plastic waste (including microplastic particles in our oceans), although I do believe CO2 pollution is on the bottom of the scale in terms of importance. I believe that fines for factories that pollute the environment should be material, ie. very heavy relative to yearly revenues. Personally, I do my best to ensure that I create as little waste as possible, and that I do my part in terms of recycling, composting, etc.

So I consider myself an environmentalist, I just don't believe that global warming is caused by human activity, and CO2 pollution is the least critical of the pollutions.